On the Hatchery: This is a new way to plant non-traditional church communities focused on service and cause. It’s new and everybody is trying to figure things out, which requires a willingness to do that.

On developing personally: Growing up, asking questions wasn’t really encouraged, so to be able to learn about different theologies has been really meaningful. Now I’m looking forward to more engagement in the community.

On the challenge of conversation in community: It’s easier to talk about what we know. It’s important to include that in our communities, but conversations also need to be around what is actually on people’s minds.

On the importance of food: “It’s a way to share and be uncomfortable but still partake together. It’s so foundational to being human.” When you’re around a table, a lot of interpersonal dynamics and stories come to the surface.

On story around the table: My own family history has revolved around the table. I also experienced such an revelatory moment when a group of Muslims were so welcoming to me during the month of Ramadan around their table.

On the Redondo Beach community: It’s certainly not a food desert, but I am planning to go to a community that would focus on those who are homeless.

On experiencing hope: “I’m seeing hope in an organization in which I’m able to dream.”

Watch more about and stay updated at her website, .

About Hatchery
Based in Redondo Beach, California, is a church planting center that incubates innovative, sustainable models of church (Common Cause Communities) – with a goal of launching nine new churches each year and ultimately building the Silicon Valley of Church Innovation. Led by Spencer Burke, this initiative is a ministry of the Pacific Southwest Region of the Disciples of Christ.

About Listening in Place
After graduating with a Master of Divinity from ������Ƶ in 2016, Cassie launched , a venture in which she is collecting stories from pastors and practitioners throughout the United States who are practicing new, innovative, and compelling visions of what it means to be the church. And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project, “The Pastoral Both/And: A Complicated Story.”

Music courtesy of .

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On changing course as a church: A principles I follow is: “Bless what has been and then add to it.” For us, that meant making services more modern and experiential. We also had 24 members die this past year, and that has been a wake up call for us since churches in our denomination are dying.

On holding the balance between internal and external focus: We have to steward community among the members of the church and remain open to the needs of people in our neighborhoods who may not be members of the church.

On the challenge of change: “It’s always a challenge for churches because they don’t want change. They like it the way it is. They like their pew, they like sitting there, they don’t like when someone breaks up that tradition or ritual…In a changing world, one of the places you want to feel rooted is your church.”

On hiring a Spanish-speaking pastor: You have to change staff to attract different people. This has been an important change, but it’s one we’re still learning to navigate.

On where the fear comes from: The traditional people will say, “That’s not who we are.” We have to constantly be reminded that we’re here to be lights in the world and ambassadors for Christ.

On blessing and adding: It’s not about coming in and saying, “We didn’t do it right, and we have to do it right now.” It’s about seeing what’s working, addressing the real needs, and also letting go of some things from the past.

On seeing hope: We’re seeing a shift in how people are looking outward and wanting to make a difference in others’ lives. I love hearing when someone says, “The church has been wonderful and like family.”

On what to pray for: We want to a light amidst the challenges. We want to embrace the Spanish-speaking community. We don’t want to create a church within a church, but instead have two families living together.

On the Flooding in Houston

After this episode was recorded, the greater Houston area (including Spring) was hit with flooding. Below is an update from Reverend Nazarian:

The rain just kept on coming, and the flooding is unfathomable. ��A number of our church members had to be evacuated and lost their homes. But amidst the pounding rain and rising water, another inspiring reality shined through — neighbors helping neighbors! First-responders risked their lives to save others. Ordinary citizens brought their own boats to rescue thousands of people. Total strangers worked endlessly to help stranded families. And the news keeps using the phrase, “Neighbors Helping Neighbors,” which is our community assistance ministry’s motto!

If you would like to give to the disaster relief fund (and designate your giving for Northwoods Presbyterian Church), you can do so . Thank you for joining with us in praying for and supporting this church.

About Reverend Paul Nazarian

Dr. Nazarian earned his bachelor’s degree from the University of California-Davis, his MDiv from San Francisco Theological Seminary, and his DMin from Columbia Theological Seminary. He is married and has two college-age children. In 1984, he was ordained in the Presbyterian Church. Before being named senior pastor at Northwoods, he served nine years at the First Presbyterian Church in Monroe, Louisiana.

About Listening in Place

After graduating with a Master of Divinity from ������Ƶ in 2016, Cassie launched , a venture in which she is collecting stories from pastors and practitioners throughout the United States who are practicing new, innovative, and compelling visions of what it means to be the church. And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

Music courtesy of .

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Gideon on starting a church: I always felt like they were holding us back. But, in hindsight, I think I really needed that time. I think God was giving me time to learn how to be a pastor. […] It was a really gracious time — I didn’t know how to receive it.

Gideon on listening: What really happens is you live life together and then along the way the voice of the community finds you. Rather than you saying ‘this is what the voice will be.’

Cassie on listening to our bodies and souls: What I’m hearing is that your own identity — your self-awareness, your self-care — impacts the way you lead.

Gideon on burnout: Maybe we aren’t supposed to prevent it. When you come to the end of yourself — no one would choose it, but once you get there it’s an invitation. I think that’s how grace works. You have to exhaust your ego. Then, it’s an invitation to the interior journey.

Gideon on who Vox is becoming: We are who we are because of whoever is in our community. I’m not trying to shape who comes. I’m trying to invite all of us to find God’s vision for our lives.

About Gideon Tsang
Gideon Tsang is a pastor with in east Austin, Texas which pioneered ,��a unique non-profit collaborative space which serves as a neighborhood gathering point hosting art shows, concerts, slam poetry events, computer classes, and dance classes, while partnering with neighborhood associations and varying organizations. Space 12 weaves links globally with partnerships in Afghanistan and India, a book exchange program for inmates, and an anti-trafficking network. The city is taking notice, too: Space12 was voted “Best New Collaborative Art and Volunteer Space” in the Austin Chronicle. Gideon’s wife Karen is a graphic designer and their house is filled with beautiful chaos via their two boys, Joshua (14) and Noah (9) and their two pups Trixie and Mochi.

About Listening in Place
After graduating with a Master of Divinity from ������Ƶ in 2016, Cassie launched , a venture in which she is collecting stories from pastors and practitioners throughout the United States who are practicing new, innovative, and compelling visions of what it means to be the church. And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project, Show Notes
, Richard Florida

Music courtesy of .

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Mark: “One of the most important things at our church is, whether you are from upper class or lower class or middle class, you’re gonna end up sitting next to someone who’s not like you at church.”

Mark, Emily, and Michelle tell Cassie about their experiences of helping lead a church that seeks to intentionally and radically transcend class boundaries. This vision is driven largely by their low-income childcare program and a homeless ministry that not a separate activity the church goes out to do, but is woven into the fabric of the community.

“Who we are has been dictated by where we are.”

Mark: “Increasingly in the ‘cool church’ movement, everybody is still mostly targeting white college grads. So they can get really cool, like pubs or coffeehouses or liturgical or whatever, but they’re still basically reaching one demographic.”

Mark admits that he did not anticipate how difficult it would be to lead this vision. The former pastor left the position exhausted physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and Mark says he often feels the same. He and the staff are not only addressing the overwhelming and systemic obstacles that face their low-income sisters and brothers, but they are facing the uncertainties, anxieties, and biases of those who are used to congregations that feel a little more comfortable or safe.

Emily: “I think we have a fantasy in Western society that we can be safe, that somehow there’s a group of people that’s safer than others. Part of what I’ve come to peace with about this ministry in church is, everyone’s capable of dangerous things, and everyone’s capable of greatness.”

Mark: “In our church, we don’t fight about things like carpet color and whether or not you can take coffee in the sanctuary. We don’t have time for that crap. We’re too busy trying to exist and function and show up.”

Even with the daily challenges and unknowns, the team at Sunrise gets front-row seats to moments of redemptions and transformation. It has forced them to confront their own privilege and to keep growing—as individuals and as a community—in humbling but beautiful ways.

Emily: “To be able to be a part of healing in every sense is so rewarding, and I get to see God every day.”

Mark: “This is family. Which to me feels a lot more like the early church, in terms of people all coming out of their respective backgrounds to be molded together to be the bride of Christ. That’s what the church is supposed to be. And it’s exhausting and frustrating and some people lose their lives, but that’s what the early church was.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , and read more from Cassie’s time with Marvin over on the . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

Music courtesy of .

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Mike: “We wanted a church that was so embedded in its neighborhood that if the doors were closed, it would actually matter to people other than the ones who show up for worship.”

Chelsea and Mike share about the unique, community-driven mission of Union Coffee, which grew out of a mission to “cultivate the divine spark in our neighbor, for the good of Dallas and the world that it expires.” Union focuses on what Mike calls “a ministry for rising generations,” and he shares how it was born after years of working in traditional church systems and repeatedly hitting walls or feeling like the rug was pulled out from under him.

When you look for God in others, they tend to see God in you.

Mike: “If we have crafted churches where pastors can’t be themselves, then can the people who attend those churches really be themselves?”

Mike, who is also the co-author and editor of , tells stories about the young people who are drawn to Union, who have often been hurt or burned out by churches in the past. Chelsea shares how, in her own experience, she was not necessarily drawn to Union because of the worship service, but because she how it was rooted in and attuned to its particular neighborhood in north Dallas. That, plus the familiar, communal atmosphere of a coffee shop, means that, for many, Union is less daunting than a church with pews and a steeple.

Chelsea: “Something that’s awesome about Union is that we’re able to adapt to whatever needs are current in the community. We’re not planning to say, ‘This is a need that might happen a year from now,’ we’re seeing what needs are currently here and what we can do as a community to help face those challenges.”

Mike: “Our foundational theology for Union is rooted in the omnipresence of God. We root everything we do in the fundamental assumption that God is at work in the neighborhood, God is at work in the lives of the people that walk in our doors. We didn’t set up this new church to bring God into the neighborhood or bring Jesus into the lives of the people who are here. Our assumption is that God is already at work. So our job is to see what God is up to and then cultivate that.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , and read more from Cassie’s time with Marvin over on the . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

https://soundcloud.com/user-958825369/listening-in-place-project-mike-and-chelsea-from-union-coffee

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In this episode, Cassie talks with Marvin Wadlow, Jr., filmmaker and co-founder of the —a faith-based nonprofit committed to building awareness, sparking change, and fostering meaningful, ongoing dialogue that transforms how individuals and communities engage issues of difference and inequality.

“There’s an absence of conversation, which leads to an absence of language of how to participate culturally with each other.”

Marvin shares about how he met his Table Setters co-founder, Matthew John Schmitt, and how the two of them—a 58-year-old Black man and a 38-year-old White man—became friends, part of each other’s families, and eventually partners in leading this organization. He and Cassie talk about the need for deep, ongoing conversation around issues that our culture has ignored or whitewashed for far too long, and they reflect on the beauty—and the challenge—of engaging difference with curiosity, humility, and courage.

“If Jesus can set the table with the disciples and the kiss-of-death Judas, then we should be able to set the table with anybody and have really hard conversations.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , and read more from Cassie’s time with Marvin over on the . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

Music courtesy of .

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In this episode, Cassie talks with , an author, speaker, activist, and prominent Christian leader who has lived in San Francisco’s Mission District with his family for nearly 20 years. Mark has authored several books, including Practicing the Way of Jesus and Soul Graffiti, and he’s one of the presenters we’re excited to see in a few weeks at the .

Mark shares about how his current activism work was sparked when a young neighbor in the Mission District was shot and killed by the police almost two years ago. That tragedy galvanized Mark and his neighbors to be more involved in advocating for justice in police reform.

Mark: “I mourn that I didn’t come into awareness about my privilege and some of these inequities and injustices earlier in my life.”

That idea of learning from our mistakes, no matter how old we are, prompts Mark and Cassie to talk about “wearing our wounds well” and learning from mistakes by diving in and getting in over our heads.��

Let your compassion take you to the far edge.

Mark also shares a bit about his most recent book, FREE: Spending Your Time and Money On What Matters Most, and his heart to help church leaders reimagine their calling and express it in innovative, authentic ways.

Mark: “Lisa and I are on kind of a lifelong project to figure out what it means to be fully alive to God and integrated as people in a particular place.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , and read more from Cassie’s time with Mark over on the . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,
Music courtesy of .

https://soundcloud.com/user-958825369/listening-in-place-project-mark-scrandrette

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In this episode, Cassie talks with Jeff Richards, who pastors a church called the in Sacramento, California, which gathers in homes, coffee shops, and pubs as a reflection of the desire to be intimately connected to the surrounding community. And rather than a private office, Jeff also works out of a Sacramento co-working space (where he and Cassie recorded this conversation, which you can listen to below).

Cassie: “What you guys are doing is fun—and really, not just fun, but important.”

Jeff: “There’s hope that I can be about what the Kingdom is doing, here in a place where people who aren’t Christians but have this spiritual sense that what we can do together is greater than we are and maybe even points to something that is more true.”

Jeff shares his story of seeing the disconnect between the vision of community God was growing in him and the practice of church that was largely based on Sunday mornings. Now, he and the WordHouse community work to partner with people who are part of other churches and denominations, as well as people who have distanced themselves from any kind of church or ministry. Jeff talks about his desire to connect with and work with anyone who cares about the growth and renewal of their neighborhood, regardless of denominational or cultural boundaries that might separate them.

Jeff: “That ties into God’s kingdom, where we’re all one, where there’s no Jew or Gentile, there’s no male or female—”

Cassie: “Presbyterian or Baptist.”

Jeff: “Right! Those things maybe say something good, but those don’t have to be barriers. They can actually help color our world in a way that’s beautiful.”

Cassie and Jeff also talk about the desire to participate in what God is already doing in their neighborhoods, rather than feeling like they have to reinvent the wheel or accomplish something grand based on their own strength or merit—especially now that the social position of the church is not as prominent as it once was.

Jeff: “The church in that sense has lost its sway and hold on society. That can be a scary thing, but that was not a healthy way of being. It’s actually kind of grotesque. As we learn to let go and have our hands open, and to learn from people and see what God is already doing, and to allow the Spirit to place things in our hands, we actually find ourselves in a more holy place than we could have ever imagined. And it’s beautiful. It’s like heaven on earth.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , read more from Cassie’s time with Richard, including the top three things Cassie learned that day, over on the . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

https://soundcloud.com/user-958825369/listening-in-place-project-jeff-richards/s-7SBCJ

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In this first episode, Cassie talks with Ryan Althaus, founding pastor of who also works with the in Santa Cruz. In this 20-minute conversation, Ryan shares his experience of going to seminary and beginning to wonder if we are missing out on something in our traditional notions of church. “I guess what I came up with,” he says, “is there’s no real reason why we do church the way we do.”

Ryan: “God’s Word is omnipresent. It’s by no means restricted to a creed or a hymn or a verse. Yeah, the Bible is the Word of God. But so is the seagull. […] When I try to box in the organic stuff that’s happening, the indescribable, when I try to label the ineffable, that’s when I lose hope.”

Cassie: “We’ve abandoned mystery, in a lot of ways. […] When we step into that mystery it’s too unknown, too terrifying, it’s letting go of too much control, when in reality following Christ is about letting go of control.”

You can learn more about the vision behind the Listening in Place Project , read more from Cassie’s time with Ryan over on the Listening in Place blog: & . And for more from Cassie, check out the presentation of her Integrative Project,

https://soundcloud.com/user-958825369/listening-in-place-project-ryan-althaus

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