Abby: 鈥淪o many of the people I interact with are desperate for the symptoms to go away鈥搕hat鈥檚 why they come to therapy. There is a complexity and a depth, and even an honor and richness that we can offer with [saying] your whole self is telling us something. My gut has been one of the primary ways for me to listen to my own trauma or my own wounding.鈥�

Abby: 鈥淚 think that鈥檚 what I鈥檓 most excited about with the concentration: honing in on more of what it means to be with someone whose mind, body, soul, emotions have been hijacked.鈥�

Derek: 鈥淭his is challenging work. It feels like not just individual healing, but cultural healing. We seem to have not known how wounded we were even though we knew on some level we were deeply wounded. To come to reckon with that wounding and then to come with both strategies, ways of holding, and spiritual ways of being to bring some healing as well as learning feels very important at this moment鈥�

As Derek and Abby discuss the Concentration in Trauma and Abuse, they step into what most excites them about this new offering and what their learning in the play and work of this profession

Abby: 鈥淚鈥檓 really excited to see how I get to marry the Allender Theory with EMDR 鈥�

Derek: 鈥淥ne of the things I鈥檓 excited about with the concentration is us raising the question that we kind of already know. Is this important? Yes. Is this something we have to engage? Yes. I deeply appreciate the sense of calling from you personally as well as The Allender Center corporately for stepping into this.鈥�

Abby: 鈥淚 could geek out for hours on neuroscience, the vagus system, our gut, how trauma is stored in our bodies, what is dissociation. I tell this students in Practicum III, 鈥榊ou have no excuse to be bored in this profession. There are so many avenues that it can take.鈥欌��

Resources to Go Deeper

• You can follow the what The Allender Center is up to at
• Abby mentions the memoir by Truddi Chase, , which follows her journey with dissociative identity disorder from abuse to recovery.
• Abby and Derek discuss her involvement with developing our new Concentration in Trauma and Abuse here at 天美视频. You can learn more about the program and application process on our website.
• In their discussion about the prolific presence of abuse, Abby recalls hearing the news breaking in 2009 about the .
• Derek and Abby talk about collective trauma, where stories are often held in our collective bodies, and Abby mentions that she鈥檚 been reading a book by Resmaa Menakem titled,

The post Hope in Trauma with Abby Wong-Heffter appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

Annie: 鈥淲hile I鈥檓 concerned about what you would think of as politics鈥攚hat would be in the political section of a newspaper鈥擨鈥檓 also thinking about the politics of being human, the politics of church, the relational dynamics between people and between groups. That鈥檚 kind of what I mean by political in the broader sense.鈥�

Annie is the host of , a podcast exploring the long and often problematic story of Christianity in the United States, grounded in the hope that by better understanding where other perspectives are coming from, we can be better conversation partners across difference and contribute to sustainable, collaborative social change.鈥� Her work is primarily concerned with two questions, she says: What do we believe it means to be human? And what do we believe is true about God? On God Help Us, Annie and her guests wrestle with how both of those questions inform our relationship to each other and our response to events in the world around us.

Annie: 鈥�God Help Us is about information, it鈥檚 about what are our commonly held beliefs in this country, how are they informed by our Christian heritage? […] I鈥檓 hoping, on a more meta level, that it鈥檚 also a way of modeling those conversations, so we can feel defensive and have all the human range of emotions while we鈥檙e disagreeing with each other and still continue to talk to each other.”

Much of Annie鈥檚 work can be connected to the category of spiritual darkness, which was the focus of her Integrative Project at 天美视频, 鈥淢aking a Home in the Dark.鈥� In our 2018 Integrative Project Symposium, Annie offered this insight into what draws her to working with spiritual darkness: 鈥淚 think that in those times when everything has been stripped away, we also lose hold of the lies we have believed about ourselves, about each other, and about God. So I鈥檓 left only with my desire and the question of what to do with it, and the question of what to do with this new reality. And I find that the only option really is to come home to myself. And in those places, I find that God is waiting for me there.鈥�

Annie: 鈥淲hen we recognize that we have put our faith in something like patriarchy, it doesn鈥檛 let us go easily. These periods of darkness, of feeling completely lost and at our wits鈥� end, both communally and individually鈥攊t forces us to give up hope in what we鈥檝e put our hope in. And that is this great gift that we can then decide we鈥檙e going to do something different now.鈥�

In an era of fragmented relationships鈥攁nd, therefore, fragmented politics鈥攚e are deeply grateful for the insightful, far-reaching conversations Annie is hosting. Here鈥檚 to listening deeply, speaking boldly, and returning again and again to our connections with each other.

Resources to Go Deeper

• You can learn more about Annie鈥檚 work, including God Help Us, at . And if you have ideas for future topics or guests on the podcast, email godhelp.podcast@gmail.com.
• As this conversation turned to purity culture, it brought to mind an article by Lauren Sawyer (MA in Theology & Culture, (鈥�14). Shauna asked Lauren to record an excerpt for this episode, and here鈥檚 the full article from Feminist Studies in Religion:
• To be fair, Annie鈥檚 reference to is more tangential than thematic. But it really is a great film!
• Shauna references an episode from NPR鈥檚 Invisibilia podcast about the relationship between uncertainty and dogmatism, and what we do when we don鈥檛 know what to do.
• Annie mentions being inspired by this article from Tyrone Beason at the Seattle Times:
• Just in time for summer, we got a bunch of book recommendations from Annie. Happy reading!
  • by Dr. Tina Schermer Sellers
  • by Frank Schaeffer
  • and by Amber Cantorna
  • by Mary Daly
  • by Miguel A. de la Torre

The post Politics, Theology, and Spiritual Darkness with Annie Mesaros appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

When Heather received her cancer diagnosis, she knew this was not a road that she could walk alone. So, somewhat on a whim, she got a Wonder Woman costume to match her daughter鈥檚 Halloween costume, and she wore it to her first day of chemotherapy. A friend, Bridget Beth Collins ( on Instagram), created a plant-based portrait of Wonder Woman for Heather, and #chemowonderwoman was born.

Soon, Heather鈥檚 friends and family were spreading the word and wearing Wonder Woman shirts in support, along with teachers from her kids鈥� school and strangers from around the country鈥擧eather shares in particular about a grandmother in Ohio who prays for Heather every day even though they have never met. Even Gal Gadot, star of the hit Wonder Woman film, for Heather.

鈥淚 just felt really carried, I felt really held by hundreds of people I鈥檝e never met.鈥�

Heather tells Shauna that while she was grateful her journey could inspire and encourage so many people, she also launched out of her own need for support. 鈥淚 need people alongside of me, to cheer for me, to be with me in this,鈥� she says. 鈥淚 can鈥檛 do this alone. I can鈥檛 do this even with just my small family tribe. I really need to, in some ways, open myself up to receive more help. I need connection and care.鈥� In that spirit, her friends told her, 鈥淵ou鈥檝e got this. We鈥檝e got you.鈥� It鈥檚 a truth that flies in the face of our cultural 鈥減ull yourself up by your bootstraps鈥� mentality: We need each other.

Shauna: 鈥淵ou allowed us all to experience something of your beauty in the midst of this seemingly daunting race鈥攖he way that you鈥檙e able to go after the experience of suffering with such play is profound to me.鈥�

Shauna shares that she can feel joy in her body, almost to an unfamiliar degree, when she鈥檚 with Heather, when she witnesses Heather鈥檚 鈥渃ome with me鈥� posture that is vulnerable, courageous, and infectious. Heather reflects on the intentional choice to hold onto her hope in beauty and goodness, even in the midst of darkness鈥攏ot in denial of the darkness, but in defiance of it. She shares how that posture is informed by the world around her, including the beautifully stubborn life in her garden, and by her eschatological hope in a new heaven and new earth.

Heather: 鈥淥ur body wants to heal. I really, really believe that, even more strongly after all this treatment than I did before. I talk about that as a gardener too: the plants are on your side, they want to live.鈥�

Shauna: 鈥淚 feel like the hope isn鈥檛 just optimism. It鈥檚 rooted in your theological framework, but it鈥檚 also rooted in your trust of creation鈥攖he plants want to grow, your body wants to heal. There鈥檚 this sort of rooted hope and trust in the evidence of life always moving toward goodness or growth or healing or wholeness.鈥�

Heather: 鈥淚t doesn鈥檛 mean that I believe with an optimism that every single story ends in healing and being alive here until you鈥檙e 95. That鈥檚 what I want my story to be, and I want that for everyone, and yet also knowing that we don鈥檛 have a guarantee of that. But we do have a guarantee that God is good, and that he has created us, and he has made us for more than we realize.鈥�

Heather shares how, at the time of this recording, there was no longer any evidence of cancer in her body. The journey of healing now offered a new challenge: The sprint for survival was over, and now she was facing the marathon of the rest of her life鈥攖he hard work of emotional healing after being so close to the experience of human fragility and finitude.

鈥淚鈥檓 going to have to suffer through being faithful here on this broken and beautiful earth.鈥�

Heather: 鈥淭hat鈥檚 what it means to be vulnerable. This is what it means to be human. I鈥檓 going to sit with that, and I鈥檓 going to accept that God, in all his goodness, is with me in the middle of the vulnerability, in the middle of when it鈥檚 scary, in the middle of when you feel blindsided by something.鈥�

Resources to Go Deeper

• You can follow the next chapters of Heather鈥檚 journey on Instagram 鈥攌eep an eye on , too!
• Shauna mentions that this conversation reminds her of the work of writer Annie Dillard. For a hauntingly beautiful example of Dillard鈥檚 writing about how the chaos of nature confronts us with the deepest parts of ourselves, check out her 1982 essay
• Parts of this conversation bring to mind the work of artist Makoto Fujimura, who wrestles with the role of beauty in the wake of tragedy and destruction. We鈥檇 especially recommend his inspired by Shusaku Endo鈥檚 book of the same name, and his , which 鈥渞eflects my journey with T.S. Eliot, and Dante, to recover my imaginative vision during the aftermath of 9/11/2001, living in ground zero, New York City.鈥�
• At the end of this episode, Kate Fontana, a Master of Divinity student, shares her poem 鈥淎n Imbolc Call.鈥� This poem is part of the latest issue of LIT, a student-run literary magazine that gets published here at 天美视频. You can read the full issue at .

The post Cultivating Hope with #ChemoWonderWoman Heather Abbott appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

Esther: 鈥淩eality is person-like, and our essential human desire is to know, to understand, to have intimate contact and communion with reality.鈥�

There is a contagious sense of delight in how Esther presents her ideas, and it鈥檚 a bit sneaky: She鈥檚 engaging dense, complex theories, and if you鈥檙e not already into philosophy it might be easy to say 鈥淥h I鈥檓 not interested in that,鈥� or 鈥淭hat鈥檚 over my head.鈥� But if you listen, you might start to hear a contagious, almost childlike joy. Esther describes it as 鈥渆xuberant realism鈥濃�攁 grounded, thoughtful desire to approach the big questions of life with vibrant love and an openness to delight. With this posture, philosophy is not about abstract theory detached from our day-to-day realities; it鈥檚 a discipline that invites us to wrestle with the deep needs of our time in new and meaningful ways.

鈥淭here鈥檚 one thing you need to be philosophical, and that is to be born. Because to be human is to be philosophical.鈥�

Esther: 鈥淚t has everything to do with love of God, but it has everything to do with love of his reality, too.鈥�

Much of this conversation stems from the conviction that our 鈥渄efective modernist epistemology鈥� and our attempts to control reality are problematic, and that we are in need of a new perspective on our relationship to the real. Esther shares how, in her teaching and writing, her hope is to cultivate 鈥渓overs of the real鈥濃�攊ndividuals whose adoration for God and God鈥檚 creation compels them to ask better questions, to pursue meaningful work, and to welcome each other with hospitality and delight. Derek and Esther discuss how that turn toward others is also reflected in what we know of human psychology: to be gazed upon with delight, and to offer delight toward others, is a central part of developing an integrated identity.

Esther: 鈥淭o be seen with delight by someone else is something that allows you to find yourself in that gaze.鈥�

Derek: 鈥淚n the current political climate of our country, it鈥檚 been hard to delight in each other, very hard to see beauty. What we seem focused on is ugliness, and our inability to see each other and delight in each other has been a real challenge.鈥�

Esther鈥檚 insights and philosophies have profound implications on how we conceive of God, how we serve each other, and how we respond to trauma and dis-integration in our world. We are deeply grateful for her work and for the generosity of her presence with us. Thanks to Dr. Esther Meek for joining us, and thanks to all of you for listening!

Resources to Go Deeper

• For more from Esther Meek, you can watch her presentation from the 2018 Stanley Grenz Lecture Series, including a panel conversation with Dr. Dan Allender and Dr. Chelle Stearns: Integration in a Dis-Integrated World.
• Esther鈥檚 writing has been an important presence in our classrooms for many years. To jump into her work for yourself, a good starting point might be .
• Esther cites Francis Schaeffer鈥檚 book as helping her realize at a young age that her questions about God and the world were not sin, they were philosophical.
• Much of Esther鈥檚 ideas have been developed in conversation with the work of Michael Polanyi, whose text seemed like the only voice in Esther鈥檚 philosophical quest that addressed her deepest questions about reality.

The post Exuberant Realism with Dr. Esther Meek appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

If you鈥檝e ever worked in ministry or a helping profession鈥攐r any work that requires your full self鈥攜ou know this matters: the rate of burnout is too high, and the cost too steep, to not take seriously the need for resilience. We launched Resilient Leaders Project to help leaders and communities respond to that deep need in the midst of a changing church and fragmented culture.

Kate: 鈥淩esilient Leaders Project is about trying to come alongside leaders in their context to help them construct lives that support their good work, instead of feeling like their lives are at the cost of their work.鈥�

In reflecting on what drew them into this work, Kate and Laura Wade share about their histories with the Church and how they came to believe it could be a space that would welcome them fully and unequivocally, in all of their brokenness and trauma. Because it turns out that it鈥檚 impossible to talk meaningfully about resilience without also talking about trauma.

Kate: 鈥淭here鈥檚 a depth of experience that you must learn to narrate in your own life if you鈥檙e going to integrate the really hard pieces of your life. It鈥檚 not simply bouncing back to the shape that you were before something hard happened, it鈥檚 saying 鈥楬ow did this really difficult situation, this suffering that I went through, actually form me to be in some way more human, more compassionate, and therefore more divine?鈥欌��

鈥淭here鈥檚 a depth of experience that you must learn to narrate in your own life if you鈥檙e going to integrate the really hard pieces of your life.鈥�

Laura Wade: 鈥淩esilience, to me, is finding healing and freedom and voice in the midst of those harmful places, and being able to meet the Spirit and meet God there to be different, to be more of who we are created to be. That鈥檚 the linking of resilience and trauma. I don鈥檛 think you can have resilience without some level of trauma.鈥�

Shauna: 鈥淎nd maybe you can鈥檛 be a human and not have trauma.鈥�

As we gather to reflect together on the trauma of Christ鈥攖he violence, betrayal, death, and resurrection鈥攊n the Church we might also find space to reflect on our own trauma, to lean into a community of others who can help us find language and meaning for that which is beyond words. This is a beautiful hope, that reflecting on the wounds of Christ in community might help us heal from our own wounds, but it is also a risky, vulnerable hope鈥攐ne from which it is all too easy for many leaders to shy away. The rigorous demands and unspoken expectations of leadership often mean that leaders鈥攅specially in church, ministry, and nonprofit settings鈥攁re left feeling as if they cannot disclose experiences of trauma or uncertainty, and like there is not room for them to receive care.

Kate: 鈥淲ounded healer is language that we usually use, but we gloss over the wounded part, which means that we often have healed wounders in those roles.鈥�

鈥淲ounded healer is language that we usually use, but we gloss over the wounded part, which means that we often have healed wounders in those roles.鈥�

Toward the end of the conversation, Kate and Laura Wade share about their experience in the first full year of RLP, inviting leaders into intentional connection, thoughtful reflection, and new practices that create room for their full selves鈥攊ncluding their trauma, doubt, and brokenness鈥攖o be present in their work and relationship. This integrative work is a central part of building resilience, and it is a gift to journey with leaders as they step into that.

Kate: 鈥淢y hope for the Church is that God鈥檚 not done. And it might not look like the church that it looked like in our parents鈥� or grandparents鈥� ages, it might not be focused on Sunday morning worship, but I think God鈥檚 not done in gathering people in a certain type of way. I want to be part of making that happen, and I want to be part of helping resource the creative and courageous people who are stepping into this unknown territory.鈥�

Resources to Go Deeper

• You can learn more about the Resilient Leaders Project鈥攊ncluding our newsletter, upcoming events, and the application process for our next cohort鈥攁t theseattleschool.edu/rlp.
• Kate shares a poem by an anonymous survivor of rape, which reads in its entirety: 鈥淚 can鈥檛 forget what happened, but no one else remembers.鈥� When she was a student at 天美视频, Kate wrote this moving reflection about the installation and about church as a community that remembers and holds.
• Laura Wade recommends a book about integrating the feminine and masculine parts that live in each of us. The book is by Tami Lynn Kent.
• One of the practices Laura Wade mentions that she has returned to because of this work is running. You can read her reflection about how running helps her return to spiritual health in this blog.
• For more on resilience, you can watch Nikkita Oliver鈥檚 stunning talk from our 2018 Humanity Through Community gathering, and you can listen to Nikkita鈥檚 conversation with Shauna Gauthier from an earlier podcast episode.

The post Resilience, Trauma, and the Hope of the Church appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

Shauna: 鈥淚 want to hone in, in this next season, on dropping down into the topics that have this weightiness to them that have to do with this particular period of time in the world.鈥�

Derek: 鈥淢ore lately, I think of text.soul.culture as being a vehicle of service. So I鈥檓 sure I鈥檒l be asking a lot more questions about serving. […] This season will be around us trying to figure out how do we serve?鈥�

If you鈥檝e listened to past episodes, you鈥檒l notice some differences in Season Three, including changes in production and episode structure. At the end of this episode, Nicole talks with Beau Denton, Content Curator, about some of these updates. We hope these changes reflect continued growth and innovation, while remaining true to our original mission for the text.soul.culture podcast: Grounded in the hope of fostering faithful dialogue, we are guided by a commitment to understanding narrative, wrestling with intersections, resisting reactivity, and fostering radical hospitality.

Beau: 鈥淎s an institution, we prioritize human dialogue. And that鈥檚 so different than one person speaking a monologue or writing a blog on their own. This is about conversation. […] My role here will be kind of an emcee to help facilitate the good work that our hosts are doing.鈥�

Stay tuned in coming weeks as we feature compelling conversations with alumni, faculty, and other thought leaders about living as wise, engaged, and courageous people in times of division and fragmentation. In the meantime, we would love to hear your feedback! If you have questions, responses, or ideas for future conversations, you can email us at communications@theseattleschool.edu.

Resources to Go Deeper

• In Season One, Derek engaged in conversations with Dr. Soong-Chan Rah, Jimmy McGee, Dr. Caprice Hollins, and 天美视频 faculty including Dr. Ron Ruthruff, Dr. Chelle Stearns, Dr. Angela Parker, and Dr. Stephanie Neill. You can catch up on all the episodes from Season One here.
• In Season Two, we introduced occasional 鈥渕inisodes,鈥� short conversations around the building about Lent, 天美视频鈥檚 Artist Residency, and what it means to be heard. We also welcomed Shauna Gauthier as a host and shared 鈥淔rom the Field鈥� episodes with Smruti Desai and Jeremy Dew, and we featured conversations with Nikkita Oliver, Dr. Curt Thompson, Dr. Dwight Friesen, and more. Listen to Season Two here.

text.soul.culture Hosts

Dr. Derek McNeil is the Acting President and Provost at 天美视频. He has a PhD in Counseling Psychology from Northwestern University and an MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary, and his research, writing, and speaking have focused on issues of ethnic and racial socialization, the role of forgiveness in peacemaking, the identity development of African-American males, and marital intimacy. Learn more about Derek here.

Shauna Gauthier received her MA in Counseling Psychology from 天美视频 in 2010. She previously worked in the Denver Metro area as a therapist and a nonprofit program manager; she also helped launch 天美视频鈥檚 Colorado Alumni Chapter. After returning to Seattle, Shauna now serves as the Alumni Outreach Coordinator. She also enjoys writing and speaking about motherhood, feminism, and faith. Learn more about Shauna here.

The post Season Three of text.soul.culture appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.