So it’s no surprise that many of us enjoy listening to podcasts, whether for educational purposes or for sheer enjoyment of a particular show. It鈥檚 an opportunity, in one sense, to take education outside of the classroom and workspace and engage themes from a fresh, often humorous perspective.

Shows we find ourselves listening to while working and learning from home are those that are more relationally-oriented, probably because they align so well with the school鈥檚 core themes and mission. From the banter of the co-hosts to the topics they cover, here鈥檚 a list of some of our favorite podcast shows this summer:

Krista Tippet & Co.

Krista Tippet and Company are guided by 鈥渄eep thinking and social courage, moral imagination and joy.鈥� That mission alone puts words to what we hope for society. We appreciate their breadth of guests and the learning that emerges from curiosity and deep listening.

Stephen Roach

Connected to The Breath & the Clay Creative Arts Movement, this podcast is 鈥渇or the art-driven, spiritually adventurous seekers of truth and lovers of life.鈥� In one episode, Stephen interviews John Eldredge about his latest book, about the need to slow down and take time to rediscover beauty in everyday practices.

Hillary McBride

You may recognize her voice from the ever popular Liturgists podcast as host Hillary McBride shares client鈥檚 therapy sessions with anyone who wants an inside look into a therapist’s office.

Nora McInerney

A refreshingly honest show, Nora McInerney isn鈥檛 afraid to tell the truth about what she鈥檚 feeling and invites guests who tell their stories with the same level of openness. We recommend starting with the episode 鈥溾�� to get a feel for what to expect from her show. Another recent favorite is “” featuring Dr. Edith Eger.

Ann Friedman and Aminatou Sow

Ann Friedman and Aminatou Sow are whip smart, voracious readers, and civically engaged. They have stretched our thinking, cracked us up, and challenged us to show up in the world differently. We鈥檝e learned so much from these friends.

John Totten and Mason Neely

Two psychotherapists, one native to Seattle, host a weekly podcast where they 鈥渆xplore what is happening between therapists and patients鈥攆rom both sides of the relationship.鈥�

A special thank you to the Marketing and Communications team for their contributions to this list.

The post What We鈥檝e Been Listening To this Summer: Podcast Roundup appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

Matt Inman is a psychotherapist in private practice and a second-year student of the RFPT program. In an in-depth interview, Matt provides insight into his participation as a student in the program and the ways in which the experiential learning process and tight-knit community of clinicians has revitalized his practice and relationships.

What initially drew you to the Relationally Focused Psychodynamic Therapy (RFPT) post-graduate certificate?

It鈥檚 difficult for me to talk about the program in general without connecting it first to my attraction to it. The short answer is that I found myself 10 years removed from formal training and I was knee-deep in building a private practice and raising a young family. While I needed more training, I knew time was precious for me with little ones and I knew I wasn鈥檛 willing to throw $65,000 at a PhD or analytic certificate. RFPT checked that box of excellent depth work in a context that fit my world in Austin, Texas.

But there is always more to the story. I have always admired Dr. Roy Barsness. He brings his whole self to an analytic world that often wants to stay in the theoretical playgrounds of the mind. I found him each year to be a source of refreshment, bringing spontaneity and honesty when the moment called for it. It was all the stuff that my heart longed for in therapy as well as within family and friendships. And while I could find that on my own from time to time, I knew that my ego and the expectations of others often detracted from a truer way of being.

When we met up for coffee at a conference a few years back, Roy told me about the RFPT program and invited me to join. I knew instantaneously that I would join but I kept my cool for a bit longer. What truly got me was that he said the program was designed for seasoned therapists in private practice who both desire more training and need respite from the rigours of the therapeutic work.

Oh. My. Dear. Lord.

I can suppress with the best of them, shoving my true experience down to my ankles. But when I heard those particular words put together in just the right way, those words became hands that reached down and grabbed my heart. For the last twelve years I had done addiction work in Dallas, church planting in Hollywood, started a counseling center, a podcast, a magazine, and a private practice in Austin alongside starting a family. I was exhausted. And I was exhausted from contorting my life and schedule every which way to stave off the reality of exhaustion. Denial can get us pretty far down the road of burnout.

It was only in the quiet moments that I could admit that I was growing tired of contorting my life every which way to keep going. I had a deep desire to live vibrantly, both personally and professionally, and yet I was growing distant from myself and my patients. This all took the shape of boredom, rumination, untimely moments of anger with my kids, and a hopelessness so faint it was unnameable.

So you can imagine that I was all ears when Roy said that if we are exhausted, we are most likely doing the work wrong. Not wrong like we aren鈥檛 helping but wrong in the way that we aren鈥檛 really in the room ourselves. I didn鈥檛 go into the program expecting a miracle, but rather to come back into contact with myself and the work that had felt like a stranger for far too long.

What have you been surprised by in this relationally focused program?

I have really experienced a deepening of what I would have called depth. Haha! The floor really dropped out from under me in the first few case studies we processed in our small group cohort. There was so much more to what I was calling 鈥渃onnective鈥� in the past. What I thought to be theoretically interesting or a possible re-enactment between myself and my patient was only the surface, and with the help of the instructors and group members, we almost certainly would find dynamics deeper and closer to me than I鈥檇 care to admit. It can be a bit disorienting鈥攖he unconscious, the growing awareness, the interplay between two people.

As I have sat week in and week out doing the work with fellow clinicians, I have not only grown to love and care for them but also to love and care for myself and my patients in new ways. My work has become much more engaging, I am more present with myself, and I can hold what I am experiencing confidently and with a loose grip.

The first year I saw myself become more enlivened at home and in my work. I still find myself exhausted, which is what I am working on as a second year student. I am finding that the more I am showing up, the more I am better able to set boundaries and work through conflict. RFPT is, in some ways, a conflict model that encourages you to not sit back and nod with 鈥渒ind regards鈥� but to locate yourself, show up and work through what is emerging precisely because you have taken up space. For someone fighting through self-doubt and people pleasing, you can imagine my struggle with such a process. But you can probably sit with it for a few more moments and anticipate my delight and earned resilience that comes from not only owning my own experience but truly walking with my patients through old haunts and new connections forged through authenticity.

How does the RFPT program compare to other continuing education opportunities you’ve been a part of as a therapist?

I have attended some really great workshops but most tend to engage the mind primarily. RFPT is the first continuing education program that reverses the order typical to learning models. Instead of learning the theory and then trying to experience it in case studies or role play, RFPT goes straight into consultations where the theory is played out and felt at visceral levels. It is only after we have felt it, experienced it that we begin to talk about it in any kind of theory or technique.

This is big for me because I can attend an all-day RFPT event and leave feeling like my brain doesn鈥檛 hurt. Rather, when I need to go for a walk it’s because I need to process my feelings and what the hell just happened! To me, this feels much more aligned with the relational work we all do in psychotherapy or any other helping profession.

Besides the training aspect, how has the program helped give some respite in the private practice world, particularly going through it during the pandemic?

I initially saw them as very separate things, the training and the respite. But it鈥檚 all about what Roy calls 鈥渓ocating yourself鈥� and being able to 鈥渞eceive yourself鈥� along the way. Receiving myself doesn鈥檛 mean I like all of me or that I am even ahead of my patients in every way but it does mean that I am able to see and am willing to work what is within me rather than live in a numbed state of denial. The more we deepened into the training program, the more I had to encounter my exhaustion, my aversion to setting boundaries for myself in fear of being 鈥渢oo rigid鈥�, etc. And to do all of this with fellow clinicians who are doing the very same work becomes a salve to a profession that can make all of us more isolated and guarded than we鈥檇 care to admit.

It has been sad to not be able to meet in person like we did the first quarter of the process. We met off Bainbridge Island, a magical place I knew nothing about beforehand. We are dead set on meeting up in person before our program comes to an end in large part because our bonds have grown very close during the pandemic. It has kept me feeling connected to myself and the group during this complex time in which I feel a general malaise covering all my overwhelmed feelings.

This program has helped me come home to myself in new ways. When I find myself bored, distracted, or going down well-worn paths of fear, I have a better mind around what I may be experiencing and how to cue back in to the 鈥榟ere and now鈥� emerging right before me. It reminds me of a David Whyte line (Seattle folks should like that!), 鈥淵ou know that the antidote to exhaustion is not necessarily rest?鈥� The antidote to exhaustion is wholeheartedness.鈥�

What might you tell a curious therapist about why they should consider RFPT?

I will shoot you straight. If any of my words have landed and you have felt their weight and impact, I strongly urge you to consider and talk with someone from the program. It is a rare thing to find a program out there that is both affordable and creates change that you鈥檇 expect from traditional graduate programs. Psychotherapy has the potential of bringing you closer to yourself or further away from yourself, and most of us need community and guidance to ensure the former.

If you are looking to grow as a clinician and don鈥檛 need more letters after your name, I can鈥檛 think of a better program. It fits into my busy schedule of 30+ patients a week and I鈥檝e never doubted its worth monetarily. If you are wanting to extend your skill, hone your intuition, and be a part of a meaningful community, this is the program for you.

Is there anything else you would like to add about your experiences?

Wherever and however you come into this interview, I鈥檇 like to share a blessing by John O鈥橠onohue that encapsulates my experience of therapeutic work that the RFPT program has helped re-energize. I hope these words can be true for me and you today.

A Blessing For Work by John O鈥橠onohue

鈥淢ay the light of your soul bless your work
With love and warmth of heart.

May you see in what you do the beauty of your soul.

May the sacredness of your work bring light and renewal
To those who work with you
And to those who see and receive your work.

May your work never exhaust you.

May it release wellsprings of refreshment,
Inspiration, and excitement.

May you never become lost in bland absences.

May the day never burden.

May dawn find hope in your heart,
Approaching your new day with dreams,
Possibilities, and promises.

May evening find you gracious and fulfilled.

May you go into the night blessed,
Sheltered, and protected.

May your soul calm, console, and renew you.鈥�

Learn more about the Relationally Focused Psychodynamic Therapy post-graduate certificate.

Matt Inman is a psychotherapist in private practice in Austin, Texas. He is also a second-year student of the Relationally Focused Psychodynamic Therapy post-graduate certificate. He is the host of Inefficiency Podcast, a show focused on going out of our way for that which we love the most. He also publishes e, a journal that helps support the reflection, curiosity, and wisdom found in psychotherapy.

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Video Transcript

What is a group interview for grad school? What questions are you likely to be asked? And why would a school do a group interview in the first place?

My name is Ben Oldham. I’m the Director of Enrollment at the 天美视频 of Theology and Psychology, and I’m here to answer your questions about group interviews and more.

So, what is a group interview at 天美视频 and why do we ask you to do it?

At 天美视频, when we conduct group interviews, it is different than what you have likely experienced in the corporate world.

Group interviews for 天美视频 are not competitive. A lot of my personal experience in doing group interviews applying for a job is that there are five of us in a room competing for one or two positions. That鈥檚 not the case at all for us. In our group interviews, we want to understand who you understand yourself to be.

Your group interview will be comprised of yourself, your interview facilitator, and four or five others who are applying to one of our degree programs. Your interview facilitator will introduce themselves, will give you a chance to get to know each other, and then they’ll prompt a conversation. Regardless of the prompt, all we ask in the group interview is that you bring yourself and the authenticity of who you are.

At the core of who we are at 天美视频 of Theology and Psychology is that we are a relational learning community. We take who you are seriously. We want to hear you relate to others. We want to hear how well you are able to listen to another person. We want to be able to understand how you engage others who are different from you are, whether that is a difference of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, age, ability, socioeconomic status, political belief, or theological belief.

We want to know that you are able to listen deeply to another human being and are willing to be changed by them. In short, we鈥檙e wanting to hear how well you understand yourself in relation to others. Whether you’re training to be a therapist, a pastor, or a practitioner in another field, we believe that the greatest efficacy that you will have as an agent of change is who you are.

What are you likely to be asked in a group interview?

Your interview facilitator may prompt conversation with a quote that’s important to them. The interview facilitator may choose a prompt of a recent national or political event. Your facilitator may choose a single word to prompt conversation. That word may be something like, 鈥渂ody.鈥�

Why would a graduate school do group interviews?

So, now you know what a group interview is. You know what questions are likely to be asked. But why would a grad school do group interviews instead of one on one interviews? At 天美视频, the group interview process relates right back to our pedagogy. Our pedagogy at its core is relational.

Our core values at the 天美视频 are . When we speak of formation, we are asking you, who you are forming to be? Who do you know yourself to be, and who is shaping that formation? We believe that who you are matters. Who you are matters not only in your relationships with others and in your self-understanding, but it matters in your practice.

In the end, through our group interview, you will experience what it is like to be a . If you want your graduate study to include the kind of deep listening that our group interview requires, then head to www.theseattleschool.edu. We would love to connect with you, get to know you, and ultimately see you apply.

Visit our Applying for School page to learn more about the application process at 天美视频.聽

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Here, Dr. Barsness takes a deep-dive into the origins and elements of Relationally Focused Psychodynamic Therapy, its core foundations, its connection to interpersonal neurobiology, and the specific practices of relationally focused therapists.

is a method of treatment grounded in depth psychology (particularly contemporary relational psychoanalysis), interpersonal neurobiology, the dialogical philosophy of , and the sacredness of the person and of the therapeutic act.

RFPT is also an evidenced-based psychotherapy modality focused on transformational change through relationship. We hold to an understanding that we are conceived in relationship, formed in relationship, harmed in relationship, and transformed through relationship. The treatment method is designed to deepen a psychotherapist鈥檚 capacity to work directly within the therapeutic relationship as the primary means of change and to develop theoretical and practical skills in the delivery of a relationally-focused treatment.

Origins of Relationally-Focused Psychodynamic Therapy

Relationally Focused Psychodynamic Therapy is as much a meta-theory or method as it is a model, evolving from a wide range of psychoanalytic ideas and theories while offering structure and flexibility in practice.

Relational Psychoanalysis is a movement that began in the 1980s. At that time, a group of psychoanalysts from the NYU post-doctoral program in Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis ¹ launched what they termed a 鈥渞adical alternative鈥� to the one-person drive theory posited by earlier theoreticians (Freud, Klein, Winnicott, Kernberg, Kohut) to a two-person psychology that emphasized the dyadic, dynamic flow of the therapeutic relationship.

With the understanding that we are shaped interpersonally and that psychopathology is characterized by maladaptive, relational configurations, fundamental to relational psychoanalysis is the power of working 鈥� that is directly within the experience of the therapist/patient relationship. Relational psychoanalyst鈥檚 basic premise is that human beings are born with a primary need of relatedness and that relatedness is necessary for survival. Relatedness is the primary organizer of mental life. RFPT practices are based on relational psychoanalytic theories and on a qualitative research study conducted in 2017 that resulted in seven core disciplines. ² These seven disciplines are representative of common practices among relational analysts in conducting a psychodynamic treatment.

The Connection Between RFPT and Interpersonal Neurobiology

Working from a relationally psychodynamic perspective is also informed by research that explores the effect that relationships (including therapeutic) has on the brain and affect regulation. Researcher Alan Schore states that 鈥渞egulation theory dictates that in 鈥榟eightened鈥� affective moments, the patient鈥檚 unconscious internal working model of attachment, whether secure or insecure, is reactivated in right-lateralized implicitly-procedural memory and re-enacted in the psychotherapeutic relationships.鈥� ³

Disruptions to the continuity, presence, and availability of primary caregivers plays a central role in psychoneuropathogenesis. Thus, interpersonal relations are the building blocks of the mind, determining our attitudes, perceptions, reactions, our feelings, essentially what we might call 鈥渙ur-selves.鈥� Affective states between the right-brains of the patient and the therapist are best described as intersubjectivity. Right brain processes are reciprocally activated within the therapeutic alliance, are most often unconscious and are 鈥渇elt鈥� before they are thought.

Working from this perspective creates relational conflict/dissonance and it is the working through of the inevitable ruptures, interlocks, and enactments that shifts the chemistry of the brain. Alan Schore says, 鈥淓motions are deepened in intensity and sustained in time when they are intersubjectively shared [occurring] in moments of deep contact.鈥� ⁴ Strachey鈥檚 translation of Freud鈥檚 die seele (soul) to mind, removed the essence of Freud鈥檚 intent. The translation sucked the 鈥渟oul鈥� out of psychology, replacing it with an emphasis on the intellect/the mind.

What has been lost is an understanding of the soul as the spirit of life, the energy that animates us toward the other, the fervor in which we approach our lives. Jungian analyst James Hillman 4 describes the soul as that aspect of the human person which makes meaning possible, [deepens] events into experiences, is communicated in love, and has a religious concern. Perhaps Hillmans鈥� reference to religious concerns is a nod to the steadfast discernment of the soul as the central moral force embedded deep within a person. Though religion has done its own violence to the meaning of the soul, ultimately both psychodynamic therapy and religion have a shared teleology. Psychodynamic therapies, laboring in the realm of the soul, (whether it is acknowledged or not), are always bumping up against the sacred. Both seek meaning, depth, and purpose. Both in their own forms of confession, forgiveness, and reconciliation, seek to transform the barriers blocking a vital life of love and care for oneself and of the other.

Interpersonal neurobiology can now 鈥渢rack鈥� the power of the human connection and the transformation that occurs when two lives intersect with the other. This intersection is transacted 鈥漺hen people enter dynamic solidarity with one another鈥nd this deep bonding is contained neither in one, nor the other, nor in the sum of both, but becomes present between them鈥hrough directness and wholeness, will and grace, and the presence of mutuality.鈥� ⁵ , a well-known systematic theologian, refers to this meeting as the 鈥渋ntimate indwelling and complete interpenetration of the persons in one another鈥nd that by their eternal love, the divine person exists so intimately with one another, for one another and in one another that they constitute themselves in their unique, incomparable and complete unity.鈥� ⁶

Practices of a Relationally Focused Therapist

In these deep moments of psychological contact, we are on the threshold of the sacred. Relational psychoanalysis, current research conducted in interpersonal neurobiology, the sacred texts of religion and the philosophy of Martin Buber, direct the RFPT mind towards the potency of assisting our patients towards health and well-being. Each advances the notion of therapeutic change through the act of authenticity. By paying attention to affective states, unconscious arousals, and replications within the therapeutic encounter, the patient’s internal world is reexperienced and reimagined.

No two therapists work in the same fashion and, given the uniqueness of each relationship and the working through of what happens in that relationship, it must be so. These are universal practices that can serve as a helpful 鈥渕ap鈥� for conducting our practices while acknowledging and appreciating the intuitive, organic nature of our work, including:

• How we position ourselves (therapeutic intent and therapeutic stance)
• How we reflect (deep listening)
• Attending to the there and then/here and now (patterning/linking)
• How we engage (repetition/working through and courageous speech/disciplined spontaneity)

These primary influencers of relationally-focused psychodynamic work are intended to deepen a psychotherapist鈥檚 capacity to work directly within the therapeutic dyad, understanding the therapeutic relationship as the primary instrument towards change.

Learn more about the Relationally-Focused Psychodynamic Therapy Post-Graduate Certificate here.

References

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Faculty had already begun teaching online March 16, moving a fully in-person school to a fully online learning institution in under ten days to finish out the Winter Term. Prior to this transition, the school had offered a few online courses but had yet to take any major steps toward expanding course offerings online.

鈥淲e believe this is the best way forward to reduce uncertainty and anxiety and establish a reliable, high-quality method of instruction and academic progress for students at 天美视频 through the spring,鈥� said in a recent communication to the school community. 鈥淭he support, collaboration, and grace for each other under stressful and uncertain circumstances is to be applauded.鈥�

鈥淎s an institution, we are working hard to balance the wide range of needs that different students have. To strike a balance, we have encouraged all of our faculty to reduce the length of synchronous Zoom class sessions, post some learning activities online asynchronously, record and post Zoom sessions for students afterward, and maintain flexible attendance policies,鈥� stated . Along with moving her own course online, Dr. Winzenried worked with Academic Services, IT, and the Library to support faculty in their move to online learning.

鈥淥ur faculty have been working incredibly hard to shift their face-to-face courses to an online format. I am proud of their creativity, courage, and commitment to provide quality instruction online even in the midst of this global pandemic. We are all learners here鈥攆aculty and staff are learning alongside students what it means to be a learning community together, even when we can’t be face to face.鈥�

, echoed Dr. Winzenried鈥檚 sentiments. 鈥淚 am proud of the tenacity and resilience our community has shown in this pivot to remote learning in such a short period of time. Students have shown us such grace and patience in this season. I have been so impressed by the thoughtful questions and comments from students and alumni, which shows a commitment to learning together.鈥�

Departments from across the institution came together to make online learning not only available for students, but accessible for all. The Library staff is ensuring students are able to access resources necessary for coursework, and the IT department is available via an online help desk for students in need of technical support.

鈥淲e know that is a big concern for our students. In addition to posted reading, links to available digital versions of required books, recommended texts, and other useful resources have been added to class pages on MyCampus,鈥� explained .

Members of the Office of Students and Alumni are providing a number of opportunities for students to connect virtually, maintaining the school鈥檚 emphasis on building relationships during this period of remote learning. There is also a dedicated Online Learning Support page for students to reference as they continue to navigate the transition to gathering for classes online.

For the time being, any decision to reopen the building will be determined in the days ahead in accordance with state policy.

鈥淒uring this strange season, may we be in prayer for our students, our school community, our Seattle community, and our world. May we offer grace and compassion to one another as we continue to jump with two feet into the enterprise of online learning, and may we welcome the unexpected opportunities that emerge.鈥� Dr. J. Derek McNeil

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When I was about six years old, I can remember sitting on the front row of Holy Trinity Baptist Church in Philadelphia next to my father. He was a deacon in the Church and it was his usual place to be seated up front. However, for some reason I was seated with him. I normally sat with my sister and mother on the second row, off to the right of the pulpit, underneath the stain glass windows. But on this Sunday, I was on the front row, slightly fidgety and playing with toys and drawing to hold my attention.

At some point during the service I looked up from my play, the way kids do to check on their parents, and I saw his face. My father was crying. Something in the service moved him and he began to weep quietly. I was fixed on his face, I had never seen him cry like this. I could tell these were not just joyful tears, but a sorrow released. I remember wanting him to compose himself, but at the same time I had never seen this deeply into who he was. He seemed so willing to let tears come, to reveal how much he needed G-d in that moment.

I didn鈥檛 ask anything, but I remember moving away from him, the way you move to avoid an awkward situation. I鈥檇 never seen him cry and the vulnerability made me feel a bit unsure. Eventually, he took out his white handkerchief, wiped his eyes and nose and returned to being the man I knew. I don鈥檛 remember the rest of the service, but I will never forget this moment with him. In no other spaces of our life together had I seen him this open. I knew of his sense of duty, but not of his devotion. G-d was important to him and he felt safe enough that he could bring his humanness to G-d and know he would not be shamed.

At times this is the way I hold G-d, much in the way I reacted to my father鈥檚 vulnerability. I desire to experience the love of G-d in the humanity of Jesus, but I still at times resist the accessibility of the incarnation. G-d enters the world through Jesus as a child, vulnerable and quite human. The idea that Jesus was 鈥渂orn of a woman鈥� speaks to His humanity, and in this embodied form, differed from us only in that he knew no sin. It has become easy to dismiss the humanity of Jesus for His divine attributes, but this only serves to put G-d out of reach psychologically and emotionally; to make Him an outsider to our experience. You see, it is in this accessibility of weakness that G-d reveals the invitation to belong, not just to Him, but to each other. G-d discards omnipotence to dwell in human flesh, to be touched and touch, to be held and known. G-d is not here fully human as a threat, not here as the Son to condemn, but to join, and to make us family anew.

Advent is an invitation to move towards G-d and to be moved by a G-d who is with us, who is active in human affairs. I first learned of G-d through the vulnerability and devotion of my father. It was not something I understood at this early age, nor accepted as my own until years later, but I saw in him what it meant to belong to Jesus.

In this season, may we find the safety to accept the proximity of G-d and the courage to embrace the healing intimacy of belonging鈥攖o G-d and to each other.

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The first phase of the program included a high volume of original survey and research material, including a 25-page research report. Once completed, Resilient Leaders Project expanded to provide in-person training to clergy and ministry leaders under the same name.

After the launch of the training, a desire was born to create a shareable component of the program to make the research more accessible. 鈥淎s those ideas started to unfold we realized we needed to differentiate our flagship training from the other parts of the project,鈥� says Kate Davis, Director of Resilient Leaders Project.

This led to the name Certificate in Resilient Service, a continuing education training that highlights the service aspect of ministry leaders. The training consists of three, multi-day learning modules over the course of seven months, all of which are in-person.

Resilience is not for us, it鈥檚 to give back to our community, to serve God and neighbor. The certificate is for practitioners and alumni who would like us to walk alongside them in the midst of their service.

The renaming of the training, which places a greater emphasis on service, comes at a time when our cultural climate is growing increasingly fragmented. Intersectionality enters all conversations, often to a polarizing effect. Davis sees this fragmentation not with despair, however, but with hope. 鈥淲hen pieces are fragmented, they鈥檙e movable. How can we resource leaders to generatively impact their communities and make our culture more livable for the future?鈥� The desire is for ministry leaders to come through the certificate having experienced healing, and to use this healing for the transformation of their communities.

To date, the two primary functions of Resilient Leaders Project are the flagship training and creating new avenues to share the wealth of research the team has accumulated thus far, such as an online resource library.

A question the team, which includes Kate Davis and Andrea Sielaff, Researcher, often asks themselves is: 鈥淲here is resilience needed most, and can we go there?鈥� Not in a physical sense, but in a way that makes their findings available to all. 鈥淣ot everyone can come to Seattle to participate in the training, and not everyone needs to,鈥� acknowledges Kate. She envisions the future of Resilient Leaders Project to include online trainings, weekend workshops, and a possible podcast so that ministry leaders can resource themselves, without the need to travel.

Applications for the 2020 cohort of the Certificate in Resilient Service open in February 2020. To learn more about the certificate, please visit our program page.

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Can you tell us a little about yourself and the work you do?

I鈥檝e been a bi-vocational pastor for 10 years. My wife and I break the mold in that she is the full-time pastor. The work I do, whether it is a non-ministry job, being a stay-at-home dad for a time, or being a pastor, supports her ministry.

What inspired you to write a book about the Trinity?

The Trinity confused me, and I found that nearly all Christians are confused as to who the Trinity is. A lot of churches and even pastors see God as a patriarchal hierarchy, and we justify abusive relationships this way. The truth is that God is an egalitarian community of love.

Why do you think a robust, well-defined view of the Trinity is important?

At the risk of sounding dramatic, I do not believe that Christianity will survive without a robust Trinitarianism. Nor should it. We have absolutely nothing to offer the world except for our God who is love, and who inspires us to love those who are different than us.

All this month on the Intersections blog we鈥檝e been exploring relationships of all forms, grounded in the belief that the enduring need for connection is a core part of how we are created. How do you see the divine relationship informing how we approach relationships with each other?

God is a community of persons, but we often think of God as a lone individual (the Father), and then we think of ourselves as lone individuals. We each bear God鈥檚 image, but we better bear God鈥檚 image together in community. God exists in and through relationship, and so do we.

What鈥檚 your hope for folks who read your book? How do you hope it will add to the ongoing conversation?

Christianity has literally become Godless. We don鈥檛 believe that Jesus and the Spirit are really God, so we don鈥檛 follow Jesus鈥檚 commands to love, and we don鈥檛 believe that the Spirit can transform us into people who give and receive love better. By embracing the Trinity, I hope that we can all rediscover our God who is interpersonal love, and who is present within, beyond, and between us.

Eternity

Imagine a God who exists eternally as a community of three equally divine persons. The relational communion of the three is so perfect that they are one divine being. And this one relational God is love. This love is dynamic鈥攐pen to the other, to giving and receiving. Each divine person exists in and through this love. Each pours their self out sacrificially on behalf of the other two, even as they are filled by the other two. The one constitutes the three, while the three constitutes the one. This is the eternal dance of love.

Creation

Now imagine that God chooses to extend this love beyond Godself, to overflow it into something new. So God creates the universe. In an act of self-limitation and sacrifice, God pulls back to make room for something other than God. The Spirit takes the lead in the eternal dance and hovers over the primordial 鈥渨aters鈥� of this void. The Spirit then pours himself out into the Father and the Son, overflowing the eternal dance of love into creation. Through this self-emptying, the Spirit sends the Father as Creator and gives divine power over our creation to the Son, through whom all things are created. And it was good.

Then God said, 鈥淟et us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness鈥� (Gen. 1:26, emphasis mine). Male and female, individuals created in the image of the one God, yet together created in the image of the communal God who exists through interpersonal relationships. And it was very good. Yet there were bound to be problems for a Creator who is love, for love requires persons who are free to accept or to reject their part in the dance, persons who are free to choose for or against relationship. And so the relational barrier of sin and death infects and separates humanity from God. Yet from eternity the Trinity had chosen a solution to our problem. A solution with a great cost.

Redemption

Imagine that the Father takes the lead in the eternal dance. Reciprocating the work of the Spirit, he pours himself out into the Son and Spirit, the dance of love overflowing. In self-emptying, the Father sends the Son as Redeemer and gives divine power over our redemption to the Spirit. The Son temporarily gives up his divine privileges and becomes fully human. God submits to becoming a part of creation, yet God cannot stop being God. He takes on our fallen humanity鈥攁 humanity that can sin like us鈥攂ut through obedience to the Father and submission to the Spirit, Jesus does not sin like us, making a way for us. In Jesus, God is perfectly represented for us, and the character of God is fully seen in submitted, self-giving, Spirit-empowered life.

God makes space within eternity for humanity, for God and humanity exist perfectly and paradoxically together in the person of Jesus Christ. Now watch how sin and its curse鈥攐ur suffering, alienation, even death itself鈥攊s taken upon Jesus on the cross, causing him to experience a loss of communion with the Father and the Spirit. He feels abandoned. 鈥淲hy have you forsaken me!鈥� he cries, echoing the lament of Psalm 22. Yet Jesus does not reject his humanity鈥攈e knows the Psalm ends in the good and perfect peace between God and us. The Spirit empowers him to be faithful to the end.

God pours Godself out for us, and takes on the consequences of sin and death. As Jesus speaks his last words, he commends his Spirit into the arms of God. And then he takes his last, dying breath. The dance seems to end abruptly. It is hard to imagine. Yet the Father and Spirit do not let go of their beloved, for the being of God cannot be broken. What is the Trinity to do when Jesus dies? What they always do, and had purposed to do all along鈥攖hey dance. God makes space for humanity as Jesus extends the dance straight through sin, suffering, and death.

Jesus never lets humanity go, and Father and Spirit never let Jesus go. Jesus is one with us and one with Father and Spirit. Thus God holds onto us through death itself. The Trinity reaches through the very core of darkness, and there Jesus falls in complete trust into the embrace of Father and Spirit. And the Trinity dances, this time on both sides of the relational barrier, and this dance shatters sin and death, raising Jesus from the dead. And so begins the good and perfect peace of a new creation.

Restoration

Imagine now that the risen Son reciprocates, taking the lead in the eternal dance. All authority in heaven and earth has been given to him, so he pours himself out into the Spirit and the Father, the dance of love overflowing. In doing so he sends the Spirit as our Restorer, who is actively preparing the world for Jesus鈥� return. Jesus waits for the time when all things will be reconciled to God, when he will give all things back to the Father. And the Father, who knows the day of final restoration, works, and waits, and loves.

The powers of evil and death have suffered a mortal blow. We can live through our own suffering and death knowing that like Christ鈥檚, it will end in total victory and reunion with our beloved God. Soon the day will come when time and space will be folded into eternity. For those who say yes to God, the dance draws us in. For in Jesus鈥攚ho holds both divine and human, eternal and temporal, heaven and earth, perfectly and paradoxically together鈥攖he dance has been extended to you and to me. Jesus reaches out his hand and asks you to follow him, desiring you to join this eternal movement of love, or what he simply calls 鈥渆ternal life.鈥�

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