Video Transcript

What is a group interview for grad school? What questions are you likely to be asked? And why would a school do a group interview in the first place?

My name is Ben Oldham. I’m the Director of Enrollment at the 天美视频 of Theology and Psychology, and I’m here to answer your questions about group interviews and more.

So, what is a group interview at 天美视频 and why do we ask you to do it?

At 天美视频, when we conduct group interviews, it is different than what you have likely experienced in the corporate world.

Group interviews for 天美视频 are not competitive. A lot of my personal experience in doing group interviews applying for a job is that there are five of us in a room competing for one or two positions. That鈥檚 not the case at all for us. In our group interviews, we want to understand who you understand yourself to be.

Your group interview will be comprised of yourself, your interview facilitator, and four or five others who are applying to one of our degree programs. Your interview facilitator will introduce themselves, will give you a chance to get to know each other, and then they’ll prompt a conversation. Regardless of the prompt, all we ask in the group interview is that you bring yourself and the authenticity of who you are.

At the core of who we are at 天美视频 of Theology and Psychology is that we are a relational learning community. We take who you are seriously. We want to hear you relate to others. We want to hear how well you are able to listen to another person. We want to be able to understand how you engage others who are different from you are, whether that is a difference of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, age, ability, socioeconomic status, political belief, or theological belief.

We want to know that you are able to listen deeply to another human being and are willing to be changed by them. In short, we鈥檙e wanting to hear how well you understand yourself in relation to others. Whether you’re training to be a therapist, a pastor, or a practitioner in another field, we believe that the greatest efficacy that you will have as an agent of change is who you are.

What are you likely to be asked in a group interview?

Your interview facilitator may prompt conversation with a quote that’s important to them. The interview facilitator may choose a prompt of a recent national or political event. Your facilitator may choose a single word to prompt conversation. That word may be something like, 鈥渂ody.鈥�

Why would a graduate school do group interviews?

So, now you know what a group interview is. You know what questions are likely to be asked. But why would a grad school do group interviews instead of one on one interviews? At 天美视频, the group interview process relates right back to our pedagogy. Our pedagogy at its core is relational.

Our core values at the 天美视频 are . When we speak of formation, we are asking you, who you are forming to be? Who do you know yourself to be, and who is shaping that formation? We believe that who you are matters. Who you are matters not only in your relationships with others and in your self-understanding, but it matters in your practice.

In the end, through our group interview, you will experience what it is like to be a . If you want your graduate study to include the kind of deep listening that our group interview requires, then head to www.theseattleschool.edu. We would love to connect with you, get to know you, and ultimately see you apply.

Visit our Applying for School page to learn more about the application process at 天美视频.聽

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AS: What is your reaction to being identified as an exemplar of resilience?

SE: Laughter is my first response. I think it was surprising and humbling. What is weird about getting older and going through life is that things don鈥檛 get easier; they get more complicated. There have been elements of my faith that one time made a lot of sense but need to keep expanding alongside my lived experience.

I think what people see in me, in terms of resilience, is a willingness to see questions that arise about faith not as dead ends, but as doorways that open up possibility. If you are thinking, 鈥淚 don鈥檛 know what to believe in that anymore,鈥� you can see that as an ending or as a doorway to a deeper conversation. I鈥檝e been curious in those places, like 鈥淲ell where does this doorway go to?鈥�

AS: What has helped you develop resilience in the midst of the unknown?

SE: As I鈥檝e continued in my faith, I have had enough experience with God that I see him interacting and providentially leading in my life so that when I come across the new, the mysterious, the unknown, I can infer that that same providence is acting in this unknownness. It鈥檚 a deep sense of trust, and it gets deeper as every situation requires more trust. Even if I am angry or don鈥檛 like this place in my life, there is a sense that God loves me, that these circumstances are where I am invited into conversation with God. So I ask, 鈥淲hat is the conversation that I can have only from here? How can I learn here? Who is my teacher, and what am I discovering about myself and the world?鈥�

An early contributor to my resilience was seeing models of dynamic faith through the lives of adults who were involved in an organization I was a part of when I was younger, Alongside Ministries. What is consistent in my faith now is practicing prayerful silence and solitude, taking times of moments of quiet and to allow myself to process the life I am in, to have a hidden practice of prayer and listening. I also meet with a spiritual director.

AS: The three pillars of resilience we talk about in the Resilient Leaders Project are People, Practices, and Purpose. There are two books you have co-created, with Justin McRoberts, that I think invite people into resilient practices and help them clarify purpose: and . The books use art and text to make space for those curious conversations with God that you鈥檝e been talking about. What is it about art that facilitates conversation with God and self?

SE: A great question to ask about art is 鈥渨hat does it mean?鈥� Another great question to ask is 鈥渨hat is it pulling out of you?鈥�… because one of the wonderful functions that art has is that it becomes an excavation tool. It helps us get in touch with the deepest conversations that we are having. Have you ever been in the car, turned on the radio, and a particular song was playing that you turned up the volume loudly and exclaimed 鈥渢his is my song!鈥� What are you saying in the moment? Somehow the artist lyrically and sonically perfectly described what it鈥檚 like to be in your own skin. They helped you get in touch with the honest truth about you鈥� and honesty is the doorway to a conversation with God.

AS: Many people develop resilience through an experience of burnout, a leadership crucible, or a personal crisis. You have explored your own ministry burnout experience in your one-man play, We Are Not Troubled Guests. Having seen the show, what was really powerful to me was your willingness to dive deep into your pain, to explore those places of hurt and harm instead of numbing them. In the play, you (literally) painted a picture of how resilient purpose can develop as the willingness to take apart all that had been so carefully constructed resulted in a new, more organic sense of calling. Do you think everyone needs to have an experience like this to truly develop resilience, or do you think skills can be taught and implemented ahead of those experiences?

SE: It feels like a catch-22 in a way. The best way to learn health can be from your unhealth, and failure can be the greatest teacher. But if you see someone on a really negative path, you don鈥檛 tell them to keep moving toward burnout. But, in some ways, I kind of think you might have to have this type of experience; what that looks like is different for each person. In part that is because there will always be part of your false self that will drive you to a place that is a dead-end, whether that is a need for accomplishment or serving in a way that is more about you than about others. There has to be the breaking of that ideal of your false self. The breaking of it can reveal a truer thing.

AS: Your latest performance piece, Say Yes: A Liturgy of Not Giving Up on Yourself, addresses this idea of letting going of that false self to embrace a wider sense of purpose. Can you tell us a little more about it?

SE: It鈥檚 a conversation鈥攗sing story-teaching, participation, humor, and image curation鈥攁bout who we are, why we are here, and what is the possible future that lies before us. It鈥檚 about the death of a dream and the overwhelming voice of Giving Up鈥攁nd it鈥檚 about redeeming those things unto deeper hopes and vocation.

Liturgy simply means 鈥渢he work of the people.鈥� So when we gather together, I will be the story sherpa, I will do the heavy lifting, but it鈥檚 really a space to open up a conversation with your own life. We do together because it is through the forms of story, art, imagery, singing, comedy, and participation that we begin to slowly untie the narratives that we tell ourselves. And the magic that happens at the end is that we are able to see new possibilities for the future.

I wanted to make a church service about suicide鈥� because I鈥檝e never been to one. I think one of the hardest things about the miracle of life is that sometimes you come to a place where you don鈥檛 want the miracle anymore. Why is that? And how do you talk to the Giver of that miracle about it? Say Yes in my attempt to enter into that conversation with an audience.

You can restore your inner resilience and learn how to live into your purpose through the . Learn more and apply today.

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Here, Cheryl writes about her journey to intern at Cornerstone Counseling Foundation in Thailand, and the impact of Covid-19 on her future as a mental health provider.

What initially drew you to attend 天美视频?

I had been living and doing community development work in India when I decided to look at grad schools鈥攁nd 天美视频 was introduced to me as a place where you are encouraged to go into your own stories. I felt the surplus of stories (mine and others) weighing, and wanted to spend time honoring and reflecting on them and learning how to do that well. My admissions counselor was also really great about checking in and working with my across-the-world-application and time zone issues and inviting me in, even as I deferred for a year before enrolling. I think I was well 鈥榳oo-ed鈥� despite also being reminded by friends who know 天美视频 and other graduates just how intense it can be!

How has the focus on theology as well as psychology impacted your studies?

This feels like a pretty big question to try and answer succinctly! I was raised in a family where faith and living out the tenets of that faith were emphasized. The idea of Spirit at work in the world, particularly among those who had been marginalized, and seeking to find it and intersect my life with the Divine at work in the world and be challenged and changed by what I encounter there, remains something I think I鈥檓 still sorting out. Classes at 天美视频 with Dr. Stearns, Dr. Parker and Dr. Loughery underscored this and invited me to continue to ask the questions and not be complacent, and to allow myself to rest in knowing the ways that goodness is at work in the world, even when I can鈥檛 always see it myself.

In what ways has your story shaped or inspired your work?

I was born and raised overseas (in Nepal, Laos, and Thailand) as a Third Culture Kid*鈥攖he depth and variety of experiences coming from that have deeply impacted the way that I鈥檝e learned to seek connection, who I seek connection with, and how I鈥檝e learned to metabolize (or compartmentalize) harm. Having also worked cross-culturally as an adult, I became more and more aware of the impact that life among different cultures has on a person (and particularly children). As I realized that I wanted to go back to school to study counseling, the cross-cultural working (be it military, diplomat or business) family has really been a demographic that I feel pulled towards. While I think themes among families don鈥檛 change much across the world, I do think the unique nature of families who straddle multiple different worlds means that they often don鈥檛 have support structures who understand that aspect of their experience. So, I came to 天美视频 hoping to do an international internship or focus on families and individuals who have found themselves between cultures and expectations of those different worlds.

*A 鈥楾CK鈥� is defined as a 鈥減erson who has spent a significant part of his or her developmental years outside the parent鈥檚 culture. The TCK frequently builds relationships to all of the cultures, while not having full ownership in any.鈥� Pollack, David Pollack, Ruth E Van Reken, and Michael V. Pollack, Third Culture Kids (3rd Ed): The Experience of Growing Up Among Worlds. (Massachusetts: Hachette Book Group, 2009).

What breaks your heart, and how are you informed by that kind of shattering?

My heart has been broken repeatedly by the marginalization of the poor and specific people groups, particularly women and children in developing nations. This is what catalyzed my parents, friends, and my own work, as well as my now-clients work. Being galvanized to respond to the heartbreak takes a toll, however. We all tend to minimize and ignore our suffering, particularly in the face of the overt, physical suffering of others, and I think I鈥檝e seen that particularly in communities who work in cross-cultural settings. On the one hand there is an immense amount of privilege there that can be taken for granted, but there can also be a deep awareness of the ways that lives are shattered by systemic violence and poverty. And so, the 鈥榝ate of pain鈥� that people encounter (as Dr. O鈥橠onnell Day quoting Jeff Eaton) is to be stuffed down or avoided in some way, though it usually finds a way to come out sideways. For a Third Culture Kid the losses of moving between countries are profound鈥攐ften compounded by a sense of rootlessness. A deep grief is there鈥攁 grief I know only too well from my own story, but also one that I think deeply informs how important it feels to find ways to provide and allow the time to pause, reflect, and grieve what needs to be honored well and to witnesses that unfolding. I see my role as a therapist more and more as a steward and witness to what the clients are un-earthing and tending to.

Can you describe your current internship, including your title and daily activities?

I moved to Thailand in January 2020. I started my internship at Cornerstone Counseling Foundation. It serves people in a number of countries鈥攑rimarily ex-pat workers and their families. The staff is varied and from a number of countries and different treatment modalities. There are psychiatrists on staff, and those who specialize in topics ranging from work with children to couples and family work to EMDR and trauma work, not to mention individual therapy. I鈥檝e been able to observe a number of the staff, who have been amazing, and I鈥檝e often felt like I really lucked out with this location of getting to observe and see different clinicians, not to mention the range of clients who largely traveled to Thailand for seasons of care from their locations in other countries around Asia! Until the middle of March, I was seeing clients in person at the office and now am doing all online-telehealth sessions. I鈥檓 still in Thailand鈥擳hailand is home in a number of ways, and my folks are here in the country (though in a different province), and I wanted to keep working for my internship, so I have elected to base myself here as COVID-19 continues to unfold across the world. Before switching everything to online, regular rhythms included shadowing clinicians, seeing my own clients, staff meetings, and case-consultations with the whole clinical staff. There was also a staff retreat in February with everyone, including all the support and office staff as well as the Thai-focused branch of staff. It was a fun few days of snacking, talking and playing games together.

Why did you choose to intern at Cornerstone Counseling Foundation?

I remember my first year at 天美视频 where I was thinking about a lot of different groups and people and processing what I was learning about and felt pretty jumbled but kept thinking about the dearth of resources of counselling support for the TCK community and cross-cultural workers and realized I wanted to be intentional, as I studied, to keep focused on that demographic and dream about working with them. I knew about Cornerstone Counseling Foundation from having lived in Thailand before and through the cross-cultural worker grapevine. 天美视频 had a student do their internship here previously, and Cornerstone was also one of the few international internship sites that I contacted that worked with the demographic I wanted and would allow a Master鈥檚 level intern (most required you to be graduated or be doctoral level). So, I began communicating with them, and Corinne (the Assistant internship director: Global and domestic for 天美视频) and applied in fall 2018.

How has your time at 天美视频 prepared you for this internship?

Put the most succinctly I can, going into my own story and peeling back some of the layers has grown my capacity to realize how slow and painful the process can be. There are depths to continue exploring within myself (which is definitely something that I heard in most classes ) and I hope that means that I can have a more open-handed approach to work with clients. The waves of pain or delight we uncover as we tell our story (and it is witnessed by another), can pull us in like a rip-tide or as a support to propel us forward, even for just a minute. Classes like Psychopathology, Marriage and Family, Child and Adolescent, as well as Interpersonal Neurobiology all have helped me learn how to frame how I hold my clients鈥攌nowing that in each of those classes as we were inundated with theory and other concepts, there was a deep sense of 鈥渁nd what will I do with this when a person sits in the chair (or in the case of telehealth, on the screen) across from me.鈥� There seems to be a continual invitation to encounter and be with in the midst of it all.

What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

So much feels uncertain with COVID-19, particularly as it pertains to this dream of working with cross-cultural workers. But the desire remains to continue to learn and work with this community of people who balance their sense of home and relationships with what they feel called to or need to do for work and to support their families and communities. I鈥檒l remain as an intern at Cornerstone through the summer and am in the process of beginning to have conversations about future options moving forward. A big part of my own TCK heart really would love to keep working overseas and with this team. I鈥檝e really come to love the team I鈥檓 a part of at Cornerstone and the community it serves. The resiliency of our clients, of humans, is astounding鈥擨 think we are seeing evidence of that on the heartbreaking news daily. In the time of this pandemic, I feel more aware than ever of how quickly things change and feel a need to accept whatever may come and the deep pain and ongoing grief that will come with all that has already changed and will need to change again, and also feel a deep sense of wanting to be able to continue to offer a base of processing and support to others.

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We met with Alicia Shepherd to talk about her internship at (through Sound Mental Health), a local nonprofit that helps people transform their lives through job training in the foodservice industry, and her number one recommendation for prospective MACP students.

What initially drew you to 天美视频?

I was looking for something different, and 天美视频 was definitely different. I had known about work, through his books and hearing him speak, and got interested. And, I’ve always been drawn to the West Coast. It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted to do. I’m a massage therapist, so I went to massage school when I was 19 and that opened the door to holistic health and well-being鈥攁nd I was looking for the thing that I wanted to do. It was actually when I started going to therapy myself when I was in college that it all sort of clicked for me. So, since I became interested, I began looking for good therapy programs and found 天美视频.

In what ways has your story impacted, shaped, or inspired your studies?

The thing that I love about this school is they really ask us to put skin in the game. It’s really hard to go through this program and not have it touch your story in a lot of different ways. So, constantly things in my story that maybe I haven’t looked at in a long time or looked at in a particular way have come up, and it’s been really incredible to have so many people hold different parts of my story with such care and love. That’s been healing personally, and it allowed me to grow that capacity in my work with my patients going forward.

What breaks your heart and how are your studies informed by that kind of shattering?

I think loneliness is the number one thing. I can’t remember the quote, but Mother Teresa said something like, 鈥淭he worst illness out there is loneliness.鈥� I really think that’s true. Being in a space where people are here and can see you and can hold parts of your story that you haven’t been able to look at has been really healing. I take that with me into my work with my patients all the time. So much of what I see, no matter what the diagnosis is or what the presentation of symptoms is, a lot of times comes back to loneliness, whether it’s a broken relationship with others or a broken relationship with themselves. Learning how to, it sounds really cheesy, but be friends with yourself. Love yourself. And then be able to love other people, too.

Can you describe your current internship, including your title and daily activities?

My internship is with Sound Mental Health, which is a large community mental health organization. There are a lot of different departments in Sound Mental Health. My internship is really cool because I’m in this one small sliver of it doing a partnership with FareStart, which is an adult culinary job training program for adults who are coming out of incarceration or homelessness. So, technically I work for Sound, but I’m kind of like a rogue agent being at FareStart. I get to do one-on-one therapy, so part of it feels like more traditional, private practice. But I get to encounter a lot of people from all across the board. Things from being involved with the legal system, a lot of substance use-related stuff, and trauma. All age ranges, all different walks of life.

Do you have any impactful stories from your experience at FareStart?

I’ve had this happen a few times, where I’ll think about the first time I met with a client and how they came in, and then in just 5 to 10 sessions later, being able to see a huge change. I hear them say things like, 鈥淲hen I first came here I didn鈥檛 talk to anyone, and now I am making friends.鈥� One of my clients said, 鈥淚 never thought I would be able to do anything besides make $8 an hour for the rest of my life. Now I see myself doing really big things and being in a leadership position. Now I know that I can do these things.鈥� It was in there all along, I just had to go for a ride with them. To see that shift in them in such a relatively short period of time is incredible. I feel very lucky and astonished that I get to do this work.

How has your time at 天美视频 prepared you for this internship?

I’ve borrowed all of these things from different professors in different classes, and even interactions with classmates in practicum. That all shapes who I am when I sit with my clients in session. If I hadn’t done the hard work myself and struggled through it, and sat with my own heartache, there is no way I’d be able to do this with my clients. Sometimes I hear things that are shocking and are heartbreaking and very difficult to sit with. And if I didn’t learn how to do that at school first, I wouldn’t be able to do it at all. I have this wealth of theory, and all of that is very, very important in giving me something to work on, but it’s that plus the experiential learning bit, the two of them together, that gives me a leg to stand on when I’m sitting with clients.

What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

Because of my massage therapy background, I really love bodywork. I would love to find some cool ways to combine mind and body, especially as it relates to trauma. My dream or my goal is that I’d love to do a group practice with other practitioners, other therapists, and have some bodywork as well, to be able to provide a space that integrates mind and body a lot more. I also love teaching and leadership, too, so I’d love to do workshops or classes.

Can you talk about the impact of the community during your time at 天美视频?

I met some of the most creative and amazing people during my time here. Not just my classmates, but my professors, too. I highly respect and value my professors. To have them to learn from, but then also my colleagues, my classmates. To talk about ideas with, outside of class. Or, now that we’re all in our internships, it’s so nice to have a community of people that are going through it, too, that I can say 鈥淚 had a really tough day today. Have you ever dealt with this?鈥� and they get it. Absolutely crucial. This community, for me personally and now as I’m shifting into the professional world, they mean a lot to me.

What advice would you give someone who’s interested in attending graduate school?

Go to therapy, go to therapy, go to therapy. Do your own therapy first. That’s my number one recommendation for people that want to do this work. I didn’t really know what I was getting into until I got here, honestly. And that’s what a lot of people say. Also, talk to people that are doing what you think you might want to do. Sit down with them and ask them how they got there, what it’s like, and could you really see yourself doing it? Ask about the nitty-gritty, day-to-day stuff. If you don’t like doing paperwork, then maybe mental health is not the right place for you. Things like that you don’t think about. Ask somebody who’s been doing it a while about their experience.

When I first got here my first year, I was really struggling to adjust. I had moved across the country from Florida. Something I wish I would have known was to reach out. Ask for help. It鈥檚 been so helpful to form relationships with people that I can go to now and say, 鈥淗oly crap, I don’t know what I’m doing.” Or, 鈥淚’m really freaking out about this,鈥� and have someone to listen. Going to graduate school feels like 鈥淚’m in grad school. I have to have everything together. I have to know what I’m doing,鈥� and that’s really not the case. This is very messy sometimes. So expect the disruption and the messiness, but also know that it’s okay to ask for help.

The post Internship Spotlight: Alicia Shepherd at FareStart appeared first on 天美视频 of Theology & Psychology.

What initially drew you to attend 天美视频?

I remember I was in undergrad and stumbled upon a copy of Relevant magazine where there was an ad for 天美视频. It was “天美视频 of Theology and Psychology” and I thought 鈥渉uh that鈥檚 a really interesting combination.鈥� So, I looked into it, went on the website, and was really into what they were talking about. I did psychology in my undergrad, so the idea of the marriage of theology and psychology seemed fascinating. In my heart and my soul, I knew I was going to that school鈥擨 didn鈥檛 really look at other schools. The marriage of the two, how theology and psychology inform one another, has been fascinating and informative of who I am as a person and who God has created me to be and called me to be.

Why did you choose to go through the counseling psychology program?

I鈥檝e always felt called to be the person for myself I didn鈥檛 have growing up, so counseling filled that hole. I was laser-focused on that. Whatever program it was, I knew I wanted to do the counseling track. It made sense for my own personal development as well to be able to hold other people’s stories and to sit with them well.

In what ways has your story shaped or inspired your work?

The first year I was writing stories about my family of origin鈥攔eally, telling stories of my family of origin鈥攁nd I didn鈥檛 realize how important that was to do that work here for my professional development. I learned if you haven鈥檛 sat with yourself and your stories of grief, sadness, joy, and deep trauma, it鈥檚 going to be hard to sit with other people. Being able to build a capacity to bear my own past pain, trauma, and to be able to sit with that in myself and have compassion for myself, at the end of the day that gives me even more compassion to sit with somebody else. If you want to do it well you have to sit with yourself and grieve. If you don鈥檛 grieve it you aren鈥檛 really doing the work, in my opinion.

What breaks your heart, and how are you informed by that kind of shattering?

I’m realizing much of my work is informed by systemic oppression, of all kinds of people鈥攚hen people鈥檚 needs aren鈥檛 being met because systemic oppression is keeping them from it, or because of power structures that are very exclusionary. As a result, clients are in my office because of the bigger issues of systemic oppression. Women have been taught to shrink, be small, submit, that you need a man to feel important or to be anything. You need to be in a relationship, even if it’s toxic. What is the collective, societal responsibility for failing these women? Society鈥檚 getting better and women are progressing, too. But overall, women are more susceptible to domestic violence and abuse. So what breaks my heart is that that鈥檚 the reality that we live in.

Can you tell us about your current internship at Hope Place?

My site is a very community-based鈥攊t鈥檚 for women who鈥檝e come out of domestic violence, drug addiction, homelessness, sometimes sex trafficking as well. Every morning we have a community devotion together and then I see clients during the day, or I’m helping lead or teach a class. A class I鈥檝e been teaching at the moment is called 鈥渟afe boundaries and people.鈥� It helps these women learn what safe people look like and what safe relationships look like because their whole lives, they have not had that modeled very well, and therefore they are attracted to people who are toxic and not good for them. That鈥檚 been a really cool part of the internship, getting to teach the class and see these women鈥檚 light bulbs go off like 鈥渙h, that鈥檚 what I was going through the past ten years.鈥� It鈥檚 kind of group therapy in a sense because it can be therapeutic for the women to be like 鈥渕e too, me too, me too.鈥�

Sometimes, we all sit around the table and read a book together, and after every page or so I stop and ask, 鈥淒o y鈥檃ll relate to that? Have you ever experienced this?鈥� And they鈥檙e laughing like 鈥淭his book was written for me. 鈥� So much is coming up with these women. I hear comments like, 鈥淲ow, that’s me in the book.鈥� And it’s cool to see these women finally realize, 鈥淥h, that’s what I was going through. That’s what I was experiencing. That’s why he or she was treating me like that.鈥� I’ve never been through what these women have been through. I’m thankful that I haven鈥檛 had to live a life like that. But at the same time, it’s such a privilege and honor to be able to be there and witness these women’s lives turning around, putting in the work to be healthy, to be whole, and advocating for themselves. It’s really cool that I get to be a part of that healing journey for them.

Can you talk about the importance of transforming relationships at your internship?

I鈥檓 learning to realize that when I sit with a client, I’m not just sitting with that client. There’s so much more to them than who they are in front of me. When people come to their therapist, there is already an assumed power structure. The therapist is the one that has the knowledge and is given authority. We can鈥檛 ignore it. It’s in the room, it’s there, but at the same time, you want to make it as collaborative as possible. We’re going to stay on this path together. I鈥檝e learned that from being at school and making friendships, being in classes with my peers, and sitting and listening to what they have to say and hearing what they’re saying.

As you prepare to step into the role of counselor after graduation, how does your own story work help you connect with others?

I think it helps having the ability to attune to these women because more often than not a lot of these women have a lot of childhood trauma that has informed who they are now and the decisions they鈥檝e made. I鈥檓 able to sit with them and their stories and to have compassion on behalf of them, because a lot of them lack compassion for themselves鈥� being able to attune to that part of themselves they haven鈥檛 been taught to attune to, or haven鈥檛 experienced secure attachment. Being able to work through my own story and work towards having more secure attachments makes me more able to sit with these other women, too, because I鈥檝e done my own work.

What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

My desire is to continue therapy, but to marry it with other things. I have a really strong desire to 鈥渘urture the matriarchy.鈥� I want to water something so it grows and brings more attention to it versus focusing on tearing down. It needs to be destroyed a little bit, but at the same time, I want to focus on watering. That might mean helping women with childbirth, such as being a doula.
We don鈥檛 talk about the femininity of God enough. I think God is very hyper-masculine in our culture, at least in Western Christian culture. There鈥檚 not enough space for the femininity of God in our theology. There’s a lot of references in scripture to the feminine qualities, but we don’t talk about that enough. So, I think that’s where the matriarchy comes from, wanting to nurture the matriarchy, because I want to nurture the feminine qualities of God, too. Because men and women are made in the image of God, but for some reason, it feels like the maleness of God is more prized than the femininity of God. It鈥檚 not very balanced. We need people to be nurturers and providers and bring a secure attachment. I feel like the femininity of God does that really well.

What would you say to a student who’s thinking about studying counseling psychology at 天美视频?

You can’t do this program without using your body. You need to be all in. You need to be present with yourself, present in the process, because the process really takes all of you. Coming into this program, you need to know what self-care looks like for you. Be prepared to give of yourself, of your time, of your energy, and of your mental headspace. It鈥檚 worth it because they don鈥檛 force you to grow, but you can’t help but grow and be changed by this place, even if it’s a painful growth and a painful change. It helps you find your voice. I feel like being here has helped me find my voice, it鈥檚 helped me to advocate for myself, and to know what I have to say is important, especially as a woman of color to lean into that more. That鈥檚 so important in today’s world. We need more voices, people who are confident in their calling and what God has for their lives and are committed to wanting to bring justice to our society because it comes from a place of love.

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Here, Minjoo Bayers, a fourth-year counseling student, shares about her experience as a Mental Health Intern at Kentucky Refugee Ministries and the driving force behind her journey to the field of mental health.

What initially drew you to attend 天美视频?

I had attended workshops and conferences from . These were life-changing for me and I wanted more.

How has the focus on theology as well as psychology impacted your studies?

I have always wanted to study theology, so I really enjoyed those classes. New Testament with Dr. Parker, Old Testament with Dr. Kang, and God & Persons (and others) with Dr. Stearns were deeply formative for me, not just as a practitioner, but as a human being on this Earth. The undoing of the bad theology I grew up with was important for my own personal freedom and is also important for my work with other Image Bearers. Having the combination of theology and psychology courses helped solidify my foundation as a future therapist who desires to sit with clients holding Love (attunement or unconditional positive regard or jeong or any other name) and Hope for them. Seeking out therapy is an endeavor full of hope because it is based on believing our future can be better. I think this is one of the things that makes me an “Allenderist” – that my foundation as a therapist is based on love and hope.

In what ways has your story shaped or inspired your work?

I learned from the intersection of my stories and my studies. I often found my story, my heart, my soul dissected open in the personal papers we wrote and in our Practicum I class (now appropriately called “listening labs”). It feels like something akin to a med student being asked to practice surgery on their own organs. Certainly, not everyone’s journey here has to be that painful, but I think it would be a lost opportunity if you walked away from 天美视频 without being deeply changed. I believe the personal story work aspect of my studies will make me a more impactful and understanding therapist.

What breaks your heart, and how are you informed by that kind of shattering?

Children and families separated and detained at the borders of our country breaks my heart. North Korean refugees who risk everything to escape their homes breaks my heart. Just a few miles north of my home country of South Korea, there are prison camps where people who should be my neighbors are treated inhumanely by their own government (although women in North Korean prison camps have been reported to get maternity leave unlike this country). I desire to keep working with refugees because it brings relief to my shattered soul.

Can you describe your current internship, including your title and daily activities?

I am a Mental Health Intern at (KRM). KRM is a local resettlement agency providing many services for refugees whose new homes are in Louisville, Kentucky. In my position I mainly provide individual sessions for those who have been identified as having a need for therapy. With KRM I also have the opportunity to teach English to the preliterate elderly. I really enjoy my internship and I like that I am able to do therapy and teach language skills as well as collaborate and learn from my supervisor and other caseworkers at KRM.

Why did you choose to intern at Kentucky Refugee Ministries?

My mother-in-law had told me she heard about there being some North Korean refugees in Louisville. I googled around and found KRM. I was able to apply for their internship program online and they offered me a position.

A group from Kentucky Refugee Ministries.

How has your time at 天美视频 prepared you for this internship?

The things that I unlearned and learned at 天美视频 about who I am, who God might be, freed me (at least in part) from the bondage of patriarchy, misogyny, white supremacy, and other bad theology. I have always been an empath, but it was a bit unbounded and chaotic. My time at 天美视频 taught me about boundaries and that it is okay to care for myself. Not only is it okay, but it is necessary to care for yourself in order to be able to care for others. I also use the giant portfolio from Psychopathology and what we learned in Ethics class to keep myself tethered and grounded.

What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

I have this feeling that I have no idea how awesome my future is going to be. I want to keep volunteering at KRM after my internship is over. I hope that throughout my career I will be working with marginalized communities. I haven’t gotten to work with North Korean refugees yet (or with South Korean people), but I hope to. I have this dream of starting group therapy with an organization in California called (LiNK), who rescues North Korean refugees.

“I believe that our field is one that puts out Love into the world.

I want to be a part of that鈥攂eing a Love-monger.”

-Minjoo Bayers

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Brittany Cassavant, a fourth-year MACP student, shared with us how her story has impacted her studies here and the empowering nature of her clinical internship with .

Q: What initially led you to apply to and attend 天美视频?

I was initially drawn to the school thanks to someone who was in my fellow undergrad program. We were looking at the website one day and it seemed like a completely different institution than I had heard of. I was in that spot of being clueless about what I wanted to do and felt this pressure to go to graduate school after minoring in religion. Ultimately, I think it was the holistic approach. From being in academia and in school for so long, I didn’t feel like I had found an approach that fit me. I was good at regurgitating information and memorizing, but I’m a kinesthetic learner, so the embodiment of the school was really what spoke to me.

Q: Can you talk about the ways your story has impacted, shaped or inspired your studies?

That’s another part of where I couldn’t have predicted how much growth this school would bring. My story feels so tied to the very reason why I came here, and why I learn the way I do. The way that I’m able to connect with people in a certain way, or see people in a certain way. I didn’t know how I am or why I am the way I am, and this school really carved out the space to dig into those questions and to do that through therapy. A lot of therapy was how I came to connect more to my story and learning how that shows up for me in the classroom. Some of my story had limited me to where I could flourish and where I could thrive. This school allowed me to see my own uniqueness, my own offerings.

Q: What breaks your heart, and how are your studies informed by that kind of shattering?

It sounds really simple, but I’ve been connected to naming it from the beginning of my studies here: When people aren’t seen and heard. I’m thinking about trauma and how that goes hand in hand. When people have their voices and power taken away from them, and that contributes to them not being seen and being able to step into who they actually are. I think that my studies have been correlating with that from the start.聽For a significant amount of my time here, I was trying to take everyone’s voice in and absorb it, to make something that was my own. Slowing down really allowed me to see that we all have our own way of engaging where we see our need, the brokenness, and the heartbreak of what that is.

Q: Describe your current internship, including your title and day-to-day experiences.

I’m at Greenlake Wellness Group where I’m a clinical intern. It is a group practice that was started by an alumna about two years ago. It has a lot of the very things that I hope to create in my own center one day, such as a massage therapist, chiropractor, and I believe there used to be an acupuncturist along with 12 clinical therapists. Initially, I didn’t think that I would end up at more of a group, private practice setting, but I found from the moment I started to connect with Greenlake Wellness that it had the very support that I was looking for, and that I found to be the most important thing starting out.

My day-to-day is largely my own creation, except for two days where we have a consultation group with seven therapists that are more seasoned. I’ve appreciated the balance of having the support there weekly to hear about where seasoned therapists are also questioning as they’ve been in the work for quite some time, while they also want to hear how I鈥檓 doing and where I need support. It鈥檚 been really empowering from the beginning that the practitioners have wanted us to be ourselves in the work and to not approach it from any specific way other than how we want to. Coming from this school, I didn’t know that I needed that. But after having taken in so many different voices about how they approach therapy, it’s been incredible to have an internship program where I get to find my own way in this work and figure out what it looks like for me to bring myself in a healing manner with someone.

Q: What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

My short-term vision is being around people in this field that can support me and help me as I start out as a therapist. I do want to be a therapist. I don’t know in what capacity, or how that looks sustainable for me, but I definitely have found that the work is so meaningful and I feel my own purpose connected to it. Long-term, I would love to have my own practice center where I can connect my passion for embodiment and somatic therapy, being connected to the body, with a holistic approach to therapy. I would love to have artistic expression be part of this center where there’s therapy, there’s healing for the body, and there’s space to be creative.

Q: How has your time at 天美视频 prepared you for this internship?

It was definitely quite a buildup to learn so much beforehand, and, in my case, doing the program a little bit longer, having had three years of learning so much theory and the practicum experiences of engaging in what it’s like to sit with someone and hear their story. It鈥檚 a whole other thing to enter an internship and be with a person in a room and not have to follow some sort of script.

All this preparation helped me realize that the way that I’m going to be most helpful for someone is to really listen to what’s happening in me, and be present to that, and not just repress it, shove it down, or ignore it. I am a powerful tool in this work and that cannot be ignored. What I gained here is knowing that I have all of this in my mind full of theory, and all these different tools I can incorporate that may be helpful for a wide variety of people, because therapy isn鈥檛 one-size-fits-all. But at the end of the day, I know that what I have to have with each person is myself.

In my concluding time here, I鈥檓 realizing that I certainly don’t have things figured out, but I feel a lot closer to who I am. And at the same time, that will constantly be evolving. I feel a lot closer to my complexity, my heart, my kindness, my sensitivity. I think that in large part, coming to this place was a way that I really came to know myself.

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We recently sat down with Danielle Castillejo, a current intern with in South Seattle. She talked with us about her journey to becoming a therapist, how she balances graduate school and raising a family, and the deeply impactful work she encounters during her internship at REST.

What initially drew you to attend 天美视频?

I had actually gone through a really hard time in my life and was experiencing some PTSD symptoms, so I began therapy. Over the course of two years I met with my therapist regularly, and one day she handed me a book called A Shining Affliction. I took it home and read it in one day. the story of Annie Rogers and her process of dealing with her own heartache, pain, and trauma as she’s becoming a psychologist. I walked back into my therapist鈥檚 office the next week, and I said, 鈥淚 want to do this. You’ve done great work with me, I want to offer this to someone else.鈥� My therapist was connected to The Seattle school, and the way she worked with me was with such kindness and honor, and really challenged me to look at hard spaces in my life. t I thought, 鈥淲ell, that’s what I want to do鈥� So, I applied to The Seattle school.

In what ways has your story impacted, shaped, or inspired your studies?

I’ve learned that it’s so important to know who I am and where I’ve come from. Not just the trauma stories of my life, but the ethnic identity I have and how that impacts me. I am half German and I鈥檓 half Mexican. How do those things come together? I have found that they do come together and influence the way I think, and the way I raise my family. Being at the school has helped me unpack those things, and I’m able to bring it home. Not just to clients or into a work setting, but I’m bringing it home to my family by asking new questions with my husband, and my friends, and my community.

How have you been able to balance attending graduate school, having an internship, and your family?

A lot of people ask me, 鈥淒anielle, how do you do it?鈥� And usually, I don’t want to answer. I think of it as a continuum. There are periods and seasons in life where we have something that we’re able to do more than we’re able to do other things. So, I am not able to do this without the support of my husband and friends and a couple of women that have mentored me through the process. It looks like asking for help a lot. It looks like I can’t make a meal every night, so maybe we need to add in the budget an aspect where we’re able to eat out. Or it looks like calling on friends to say, 鈥淐an you pick up my kids from school today?鈥� It looks like taking time out of my schedule to coach my son’s basketball team, but since I can’t be there every night, I have to ask someone to help me out. At this time in my life, in different semesters even, the continuum shifts. Sometimes I’m able to be more present at home and activities, and other times I have to be less present.

What breaks your heart and how are your studies informed by that kind of shattering?

The things that break my heart are spaces where truth isn’t welcome. Spaces where kindness isn’t welcome. Spaces where certain bodies aren’t welcome. Different colors of people aren’t welcome. Different ethnicities aren’t welcome. Spaces where the gospel is only seen through one lens, and it’s not a lens that includes people of color. I think that I highlight that, particularly because my family is a multicultural, multiethnic family. My husband is a Mexican immigrant, a U.S. Citizen and we have four children. It’s important to me to find spaces where there’s belonging. I think a lot of my clients are looking for spaces to belong to as well. And that breaks my heart.

Can you describe your current internship, including your title and daily activities?

The title at my internship at REST is Survivor Engagement Specialist and intern. On Mondays, I lead a support group for survivors of the sex trade. It鈥� s an open group, members shift every week, but once the doors are shut, that’s our group. Prior to the group space, I’m engaging with clients, meeting with them one on one. We sit down and have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea and talk. There’s a wide variety of ways to engage clients鈥攊t’s not your typical office setting. So, I do that for a few hours, lead the group for about an hour, hour and a half, and then afterward debrief with coworkers, supervisor, and start the cleanup.

On Wednesdays, we have something called the Integrative Health Clinic and I intern in that space. There are two trauma therapists: myself and a medical advocate. A client can make an appointment for a half-hour and come, sit at the table with us, and share mental health concerns and physical concerns. Sometimes we have a faith friend there. 鈥淵ou want to explore faith issues? You can go do that.鈥� It鈥檚 a way to brainstorm practical support for needs.

At 天美视频, counseling psychology interns can choose their internship site. Why did you choose REST?

I believe in what REST is doing. One of the things they say on their website is 鈥淓verybody deserves to be loved.鈥� And I believe that. I’m passionate about seeing people that have experienced the sex trade, and human trafficking, if that’s what they want is to leave, and joining them on the path towards freedom and healing. I have wonderful coworkers, people who love the clients, and it鈥檚 an opportunity to work in a place that isn’t setting up walls and barriers for care鈥攚e鈥檙e actually brainstorming ways to take down barriers to access care. at.

I’ve had a couple of clients be able to move forward and get an ID card and pursue housing and make small steps towards changing their situation. I’ve been inspired by a client who doesn’t have a telephone, but showed up just to let me know 鈥淚 can’t actually meet with you today.鈥�

Can you talk about the importance of transforming relationships at your internship with REST?

The clients are always watching. They’re observing. They want to know if you’re genuine, if you’re real. They want to know if you’re going to deliver on what you say you’re going to deliver. A relationship is key. If there’s no relationship, there’s going to be no movement. There needs to be a sense of, I can wait with this client through traumatic response, through my own heartache, through the goodness we experienced before, I see this as practice鈥攖he art of building attachment and relationship is practice. I don’t see the missed appointments, as I’m disappointed. I’m sad, but they鈥檙e not the end. I see it as 鈥淥kay, you missed our appointment? That’s one miss out of the way. That means we’re that much closer to you showing up the next time.鈥�

How has your time at 天美视频 prepared you for this internship?

I had a lot of anxiety growing up, and I think without the experience of diving into my story and doing personal work, working on attachment all of these things, the process of becoming aware, the process of knowing more about who I am, has prepared me to step into environments where there aren’t necessarily barriers and containment. Without that, I’m not sure I could have stepped in and stayed grounded. The process of knowing my story, the process of putting in hard work on my own at the same time, has moved me into places where I am better prepared to handle the stories of clients.

What are your hopes, dreams, and desires as they relate to your future vocation?

When I think of life after 天美视频 and graduation, I feel a great sense of grief. What am I going to be missing? Who will I not see? And, I have this awesome sense of excitement, like I’m starting off on another voyage. Some of my hopes are to continue working in the community, and in community mental health, and also open up a private practice. I really want to have a sense of the Integrative Health Clinic that I work with at REST and bring something like that to my area. I love my clients at REST. I’m not ready to leave them yet. So after I graduate I hope to stay connected and. I hope to stay involved. I hope to work in some capacity with survivors that have experienced the sex trade. I really love that aspect and the diversity of the work. like to work with clients from a variety of backgrounds. I speak Spanish, so I’m hoping to use some of these skills in a multicultural dimension.

Looking back, what advice would you offer to prospective or first-year MACP students?

Do your work. Show up to Listening Lab, and participate. Get into therapy, connect with a therapist, and show up for those appointments. And don’t look too far ahead. Be present right in the moment. Then, when you start moving forward, allow yourself to dream. Allow yourself to think, 鈥淲here would I want to intern? What population am I dreaming about working with?鈥� Grab your resume, take it with you to the internship fair, and pass it out to people you think 鈥淚’m not even interested in that,鈥� because you don’t know who you might connect with. Sometimes we have, in our mind, a certain idea or a certain place we think we need to be. If we eliminate another option, we’ve eliminated our imagination for that.

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